Ok, this just became a religious debate when it was a thread about a religious leader passing. Not everyone's religious leader, true, and a leader of a minority of people here. But still, a good man.
I am a Catholic and this is sad for me. I don't expect it to be the same for Muslims. As a Catholic when Muslim family members pass away, I extend my condolences, hug my relatives and NEVER say well, he was a sinner, I hope he's not in hell or any other words to that effect. That is in poor taste in front of the body of the person who passed and the mourners.
When my father passed, my husband stood with me and he consoled my mother and family and not once become judgemental or disrespectful about our religion. The Priest of our church still shook his hand and welcomed him, even after he refused communion.
Whatever your religious belief, respect for a person who passed away is standard.
Respect for another's religion is also standard. Even the Pope lectured the president on the wrongness of the war in Iraq publically, spoke out about the plight of the Palestinian people, and he didn't once say "even though they are Muslims and condemned anyway", he always advocated treating all of humanity fairly regardless of faith.
I would also request that the moderators of this thread, please split the debate from the news of his passing. While interesting, I believe it is a bit inappropriate also.
Some of you don’t let any opportunity go by without passing your lowly sarcastic remarks about other’s faith and beliefs. It seems like Islam teaches you to hate ppl who are different. You should be ashamed of your intellect. There are million other things to feel good about Islam and yourself. Get a life.
armughal, I didnt delete the posts, merely moved them to Religion forum for a seperate discussion. If we don't pray for his maghfirat we can atleast appreciate him as a human being.
Armughal there is a difference between praying and mourning for someone. We have a proper methodology for prayer, which none can actually implement on the net. We are mourning the loss of a very important person.
Secondly I would like to know where it states that we can't pray for the death of christains.
I know where you’re coming from but people should still show some respect.
Didn’t our Prophet :saw: stand up when the funeral procession of a Dhimmi Jew went passed him, and ordered his companions to stand up too? When somebody said to him “it’s a Jew”, he rebuked them by saying, “wasn’t he a living being.” (or something to that effect.
Nothing wrong with expressing condolences but some of these chamchas are going a bit far, who are we to pray for a Kaafir when the Prophet :saw: was forbidden from praying for his own uncle Abu Talib because of the latter’s Shirk, this was a man who brought up and loved and protected the Prophet :saw: like his own child but because he didn’t accept monotheism and the true religion of God the Prophet :saw: wasn’t allowed to pray for someone who he loved like a parent.
Another story what comes to mind is that of Noah :as: being forbidden from praying for his Kaafir son.
^ Yes Ranjhan, Some people shud just convert if their love for a kafr is that to an extent that they'll mourn for him THIS MUCH.
He passed on, he is in Allah's domain. So Allah knows best what will happen to him not us. ALl we know is that he didn't die with iman. Its apparent he didn't!
So, I don't want to mourn for someone who believed god had a son.
If he was a "good" man, then he was a good man. I'll agree.
But there is absolutely NO NEED for us to cry for him.
Pope dies, these *** kisser chamchays stand up for his right. When your own sisters are getting raped in Chechnya, iraq, kosovo, afghanistan etc, you don't have the tinsiest amount of courage to MOURN for THEM. The shaheeds, the Mujahids, those that protect YOUR right, you can't mourn for them, and pray for them, instead you can kiss this old buddha's ***.
My earlier stance was wrong. I apologise for that.
Thanks and Jazkallah to a brother for very kindly and patiently explaining the correct Islamic point of view to me and same to Anwar Qureishi.
I have edited my post in this thread and my post in the thread in the religion forum as well.
Indeed, we are not allowed to pray for the forgiveness of someone who is non Muslim and has passed away. That is the Will of Allah and we have to submit to it...
I was listening to Imam Hamza Yousaf’s lecture and he said that today’s muslims are stuck in the Naql phase. Do what the Quran says and do what prophet did. That’s all fine and dandy but Aqal (intellect) is a prerequisite for Naql. You need to understand Quran before you represent it. Use your intellect before you shoot a so called kafir. Reading your posts I don’t think you guys know what’s kufr. Shirk is kufr.. worshiping idols is kufr.. and I don’t think Christians are guilty of that. Their belief system is as authentic and good as yours. All you are asked is to show respect. That's all!
Sometimes I envy the level at which you guys are brainwashed. I wish I was dumb enough to follow Islam like islam kay rukhwalays do.
How do you think Jesus was born? Maybe you can explain from Islamic reference. You don't understand the concept of god. Linguistics are created by humans..son doesn't literally mean ‘son’ of god.. Grow up.
Would you guys stop arguing over a death. I mean come on its ridiculous. May God reward him for his good deeds, and forgive his sins. Whys it so tough to leave it at that?
(ps its pointless if the ones trying to make others see sense, also result to more arguing and attacking.)
p.s Fayz, there aint any point in saying anything to these rakhwalay... in the past 2.5 years ive been on GS, ive not seen one of them accept another persons opinion... why would they change now?
because he's a religious leader, was a campaigner for peace in the world (yes... including the Muslim world), and deserves at least a basic level of respect if not reverence.
I read what you just said - and that was way out of line!!
Who is arguing over death? All that is asked is respect.
Exactly my question. You are supposedly not allowed to mourn or pray for the guy. One can only take so much of jahalat. And I for one am not letting these molvies get away on this one.