Id like to call all threads begun under the garb of those who would like to call it ‘philosophy’ or what it will emerge as..PONDERINGS…all threads that link to these thoughts , kindly mark them Ponderings..I invite everyone especially those who responded to my idea of initiating serious ponderings to come and join this quest of the Soul…Faizy,CM,Nia,Faisal,Pt,Fraudia and I hope I have not forgotten anyone who stopped by on my suggestion-note…and everyone else is welcome as well.
before we all venture forth..please try and remain as close to the crux of this thread Ponderings: Pourings of your Mind,Your thoughts and your soul with refernce to all you have had the opportunity of reading or hearing..I mean to hopefully enclose Poetry also..I insist
Shall I begin this thread with a quote from Rumi
"
This miracle,daily as dawn and sundown,
Normal as bread, as sleep after love:
If I look at him,I see my own image
If I look at my own, I see his, aflame"
Rumis message is that of transcendent Love that burns away all barriers between man and God and man and man…
CM suggested we should maybe start with the discussion centering upon the crisis of man being inherently evil…there is a contradiction within my being ..I see what is contrary to my belief but the more I see it the more I succumb to this LOVe..I believe(or maybe I want to) that man may not be inherently evil…times,circumstances and frustrations make him so…
Someone bring in Iqbal,please..his Khudi..his Shikwa and Jawaab-e-shikwa…
I humbly am submitting this thread with the hope that all mistakes and all short comings will be seen as forgivable…kindly start posting…and increase this richness and make this thread HAPPEN…
I am not gonna quote nobody in this thread, so these are just my views. I see man to be inherent evil, with the ability to do great good. It is much easier for someone to steal than to earn a hard days work. It is easier for a student to leech of his friend who has done his homework. It is easier for us to remain silent on the travesties in this world than stand up and shout for our rights. We can complain all we want. Politics forums was created for that. But how many of us take an active stance in real life to help these people? Very few to none.
Man gives into temptation, man is weak and is seduced by what is evil and wrong. Man can and does think in a selfish manner. He would steal from his family if it was in his best interest. Why is it that so many rich parents end up in housing homes in the west. Why do wives in our society at points complain about the husbands parents living with them, but scolds her brother when he doesnt do the same or enough for their parents? It is pure selfishness.
Man can do great harm as well. Nuclear weapons. HIV/AIDS. Massacres, genocide etc. I personally see it as obvious that man will do what is wrong more easily that what is right. As doing what is right entails hardship and sometimes death.
Just to point out, my definition of evil, is to do something wrong. Man would rather do something wrong before he does something that is right. That i see as evil and thus define man has inherently evil. Yes it is a weird way of putting things, but hey you havent read my views on racism yet.
hmmmmmmmmmm.. . .. . this topic will go hay-wire soon cuz of the point i am about to make..
everyone of us believes (or as aries mentioned WANT TO BELIEVE) that god created man in the IMAGE of His .. thus putting evil INTO that image meant what? ??? (question remained unanswered due to my lack of age and understanding of life).
shikwa, jawab-e-shikwa, etc. wont be able to cover the such broad horizon of this post, so i will go a step beyond poetry.
every person thats born is born as an angel -guppie.
thus, yes, circumstances ARE what makes the evil to come out, .. so? well analysis shows that every person HAS evil integrated INTO him. Right reasons bring it out.
aur rahi baat views ki to meri philosophy ye rahi hay:
[quote]
"Koee bhee cheez achi, ya buri nahi hoti.. uska ISTIMAAL usko buraa ya acha saabit karta hay"
[/quote]
man was born without any understanding of evil or good.. he adapted a way or the other, or in different stages of life, both.
BEFORE i end, i would say, mankind THOUGH was given power to join one path or the other.. its what we CHOOSE our path that made this thread possible.
...and yet...some of us exist on a different level...and yet there is goodness in the world...Yes we are put in the most difficult of times..at times..and I am not talking off my mad hat..I am saying this with the surity I know to be life itself..that we are put in tough times and some of us..and maybe most of us..succumb to the easier way out..and we stop growing..thats all I am bothered about,CM and Faizy..that we stop growing..for me it is the end of another dream that The Universe had for a being called MAN...if every one of us wold reach within we would find the seed...the first seed (and I dont want to bring religion in here right now) that seed is inherently of the soul..or a feeling if you want to call it that...when we let it grow..threads are born..when we let it whither..evil is born..corruption and politics are born..but that seed has to grow within some of us..it must..for the sake of if nothing else tan beauty...Khudi..Iqbals Khudi is not so broad faizy...its tangible...dont be scared and bring it in..he speaks of this seed...of reaching within and bringing without this possibility og growth....and the possibilities , I have found in my personal endeavours and my battles..are...endless.........
And this is why i dont like discussing philiosphical topics on muslims sites, as religion is brought about in everything. It would be nice not to discuss religion. But oh well. If we are to move further in this debate, i would request no religion please.
Man can not be created without a sense of right and wrong. It is society that deems the borders for what is right and wrong and society is based upon the desires and dictates of man. Thus man knows what is right and wrong. As children we are taught it is wrong to steal etc. We learn, but we are told what is right and wrong from our parents and they learn from theirs and so on.
Now i agree there is great good, but they are very few who can be capable of such things. There are nearly 7 billion people in this world, but only a handful that have done only good for the people. The rest have done both evil and good. But i believe the evil part is larger. War, Famine, disease etc. The US produces enough food in one year to feed a majority of Africa. A great deal of this food gets dumped into the ocean instead of being sent out on humanitarian reasons.
If man was good, the people would have protested and gotten the food towards the african people. But rather they are greedy - an evil trait deemed by society - and rather not give stuff for free.
As for growing, man grows and wishes to do what is good. But can not due to societal contraints as well personal weaknesses. That is when a person stops caring and just sticks to himself and his betterment. That in my opinion is evil, when you stop caring for others. But the way western society is developing that is becoming the norm. And now back to work.
less effort plus higher gain is what man is lookign for. where do I apply the least amount of effort and get the maximum benefit. If I had to plan a bank robbery for a year and then get away with $25K, I would be out of my mind to do it.
the technological innovation, and all the facilities we have is due to our laziness, or rather hardwork in order to become lazy later.
technical inovation is not laziness,Fraud.. it is hard work a lot of hard work and I think that takes us to new dimension here...what drives man..or men if you like..for me its an emotional high..I have to be in love with whatever I am doing..like right now I am writing this and I can feel my Soul throbbing within and I chose my fav ghazal and sat down at this desk here right now....this moment..is what I am driven for and at...if I look at the peripheral around I wouldnt want to move an inch...the burden of Existance itself would be enough to make me cry out..but I believe we do this to drive ourselves and numb the Pain of Living itself...its going to College at one point..its discovering a sense of self at another...finding THAT job..not finding it but getting something nonetheless...its finding love...sometimes but not always..its looking back and feeling good or looking ahead and fiding something to look forward to(if)..its the drive we need to exist..or else we would ..I dont know..I have often thought of this sentence in my foggy mind...'otherwise..' we would dunnoh..wake up and actually smell reality..point blank in the face....
let me further this point to another point in the discussion,then...do we drive ourselves because we know Reality is ....a..Wasteland...and what is it then that makes this Wasteland more beautiful even among my ruins...is it what I know to be my Ultimate resting place..sigh
'khuda ke waaste parda na qabe se utha zaalim
kaheen aisa na ho yaan bhi wohi kafir sanam nikle'
or
better still
'hum ko unse wafa ki hai ummeed
jo naheen jaante wafa kiya hai '
i would agree with faizan and cm that us humans take the choice of either creating evil within us. etc
but i got a question what do you guys say about this... Those kids who were given guns in their hands at the age 10 or perhaps younger age then that. Are they pure examples of EVIL.
So what if they realize at the age of 20 that what they have put themselves in total evil...what can they do? When its up to them to save lives of their family.
EX. kids in taliban's camps etc
Wasn't the point to build this world to judge humans?
