Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Admittedly they are not angels (politicians are equally to blame for the current mess if governance during the last 8 years is anything to go by) but I was just correcting you
not in favour of military coup.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Admittedly they are not angels (politicians are equally to blame for the current mess if governance during the last 8 years is anything to go by) but I was just correcting you
not in favour of military coup.
last 9 years
O meray Khuda
let's start from 2007
game started with conspiracy against Mush
One pushed CJ & media secretly against Mush
with blood of innocent people he was near success but BB died unexpectedly and plan partially failed
Than conspiracies continued every day bases
Memogate , The most cheapest act in the history of Pakistan .
CJ Iftekhar was a fool and played like a puppet in hands of some people
Karachi ho ya Lahore , Games continued
Just read the two three threads on board here at PA this time .
OBL , Angoor Ada and Drone Shareef
No country can survive in these circumstances .
It is only God , Only God who is still kind to us .
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
last 9 years
It is only God , Only God who is still kind to us .
Uncle Sam??? :) Has Sam stopped billions of dollars in loans and grants, I don't know what will happen to Pakistan? According to Anwar Maqsood, Pakistan sirif Muhajiron main khud kafil hay chahay woh Afghani hon ya phir koi aor :)
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Kayani was dumb but he did have a masters in War Studies
I am curious to know what is your basis for this statement asif? pak army and its whole selection process must be a joke if its Cheif is dumb unless you have specific reasons to call him dumb. Dumb means he was stupid. Before you become Chief, you go through so many tests throughout your life
yes, he had a different view about military operation against taliban but that was a strategic view and he did take action in swat.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
The general consensus on this forum is that All ills that Pakistan in recent history are due to Military. OK - let's discuss! ....
Comprehension issues still haunt us. How did you reach that conclusion is mind-boggling and reflects how much thought goes into these posts.
Based on above assumption, all ills are due to the people on the left side in the picture below and people on the right side were / are trying to work for betterment of Pakistan - please name a few of the PM's with positive plans that did Pakistan any good. ....
People on the right side were produced, nurtured and backed by people on the left side. Instead of crying about the symptoms, why not identify the causes?
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
....I'm sorry but people like you and their civ-mil binary is responsible for dumbing down the democratic discourse in Pakistan that calls for accountability from politicians who boast about getting people's votes. It's such a good old sly tactic to shut down people from asking for something little more from politicians. .......
Why is it bad to call for accountability from military? Is it not true that military has produced and backed politicians like ZAB, NS, Zardari, IK and Co? Why is military beyond accountability when they have overtly ruled the country for decades and still wields great power in the corridors of domestic politics?
OP calls for a change in system from outside the system. Please identify such a new system and who will change it?
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
You all talk about the documented money , Trillions transaction of
Ghost money
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/607294-ghost-money.html?highlight=ghost+money betwwen CIA *& …
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
I am curious to know what is your basis for this statement asif? pak army and its whole selection process must be a joke if its Cheif is dumb unless you have specific reasons to call him dumb. Dumb means he was stupid. Before you become Chief, you go through so many tests throughout your life
yes, he had a different view about military operation against taliban but that was a strategic view and he did take action in swat.
Well the way he spoke (hardly inspiring), the way he acted after Swat. He deliberated too much on military operation imo.
After the successful Swat operation he should have just gone in and finished the job, exactly what Raheel is doing now. Instead he allowed this menace to flourish. IK was irrelevant at the time (rose to political prominence only after 2011), NS was not in power. if Raheel can achieve this under a reluctant PML-N government why could Kayani have not done the same or even more under PPP which has a clear anti-Taliban stance.
And yes Kayani would have been a general but he was hand-picked for the post of COAS by Musharraf
Not saying everything has been rosy under Raheel. APS attack was a big intelligence failure.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Well the way he spoke (hardly inspiring), the way he acted after Swat. deliberated too much on military operation imo.
After the successful Swat operation he should have just gone in and finished the job, exactly what Raheel is doing now. Instead he allowed this menace to flourish. IK was irrelevant at the time (rose to political prominence only after 2011), NS was not in power. if Raheel can achieve this under a reluctant PML-N government why could Kayani have not done the same or even more under PPP which has a clear anti-Taliban stance.
And yes Kayani would have been a general but he was hand-picked for the post of COAS by Musharraf
Not saying everything has been rosy under Raheel. APS attack was a big intelligence failure.
Iam not fan of Kiyani either, specially his things with Bahria and DHA etc...still Swat Operation was first official operation of Pak Army to eliminate terrorists from Pakistan, after Swat, Gen Kiyani Cleared almost all the FATA region including BajoR, Kuram and South Wazirstan...
Apart of FATA, he also cleared Maximum of Balochistan...so yes we may object on his speaking style but he actually have done milirary wonders with the army who was not able to wear its uniform in civil area under his predessor the Mushy...
Ps sorry for the spellings, my phone have gone nuts
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Why is it bad to call for accountability from military? Is it not true that military has produced and backed politicians like ZAB, NS, Zardari, IK and Co? Why is military beyond accountability when they have overtly ruled the country for decades and still wields great power in the corridors of domestic politics?
OP calls for a change in system from outside the system. Please identify such a new system and who will change it?
Call for accountability all you want, but your post suggest that just because we have had military dictators, it somehow makes it tolerable for politicians be utterly corrupt and criminally incompetent simply because we have had military rule. Do you know this is exactly the excuse likes of PPP had been using since 70s to justify every criminality and every act of incompetence, do you approve such logic?
Believe me, people did not vote for Army Generals in 2008, or in 2013 and they won't vote for one in 2018 either, so it is about time people like you stop dumbing down the democratic discourse and ask for accountability from people who are the present and future caretakers of the system - those who get votes and do indeed hold power.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Why is it bad to call for accountability from military? Is it not true that military has produced and backed politicians like ZAB, NS, Zardari,** IK **and Co? Why is military beyond accountability when they have overtly ruled the country for decades and still wields great power in the corridors of domestic politics?
OP calls for a change in system from outside the system. Please identify such a new system and who will change it?
Sometimes I really feel like shedding a tear or two for Imran.
That man has been backed by all globally powerful Jewish lobby and equally powerful Pakistani Army yet the man has no real success in 20 years of his political career.
It must've been some special taveez not military backing that made ZAB and NS minsters and then Prime Ministers.
Moral of the story: So much for your cyclical military bashing debates, if you were genuinely well informed on what military backing looks like and the kind of definite results it produces, you wouldn't going around demonising and discrediting genuine democratic option under such pretext.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Call for accountability all you want, but your post suggest that just because we have had military dictators, it somehow makes it tolerable for politicians be utterly corrupt and criminally incompetent simply because we have had military rule......
The fact that you don't even bother to read what you are responding to makes it difficult to have a 'democratic discourse'.
BTW, "democratic discourse" doesn't look like this:
A: OMG... politicians are so corrupt. Lets change the system.
B: OMG... i know right.... politicians steal everything.. they are evil. lets change the system.
A: OMG... but politicians are the ones responsible for changing the system. Why would they want to change the system?
B: I know right... lets change the system from outside.
A: Great idea. That's some great out of the box thinking. Lets go have KFC. My driver is always late. We need to change our driver.
Adios.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
The fact that you don't even bother to read what you are responding to makes it difficult to have a 'democratic discourse'.
BTW, "democratic discourse" doesn't look like this:
A: OMG... politicians are so corrupt. Lets change the system.
B: OMG... i know right.... politicians steal everything.. they are evil. lets change the system.
A: OMG... but politicians are the ones responsible for changing the system. Why would they want to change the system?
B: I know right... lets change the system from outside.
A: Great idea. That's some great out of the box thinking. Lets go have KFC. My driver is always late. We need to change our driver.
Adios.
In your head, changing the system simply means replacing the system! Sorry that's entirely your fault!
Maybe the OP can spell it out word by word what he means because frankly speaking your PPP-esque logic of 'we have had military rules so somehow it makes it tolerable and acceptable for politicians to waste another decade and another generation through corruption and bad governance' makes no sense.
Believe it or not, system can be changed from within without being replaced! Maybe think about this with open mind and more thorough understanding of democracy instead of churning the great PPP logic.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Comprehension issues still haunt us. How did you reach that conclusion is mind-boggling and reflects how much thought goes into these posts.
People on the right side were produced, nurtured and backed by people on the left side. Instead of crying about the symptoms, why not identify the causes?
I guess self-contradiction is an issue here.
Your first and second statements are incongruous.
In first you are outright challenging my assumption and then in the same breath corroborating my assumption re this forum with your second statement (bold).
Anyone will consider this a sweeping statement:
“People on the right side (Politicians) were produced, nurtured and backed by people on the left (Army) side”
As an example, who was backed/produced by – if you can substantiate with some credible references that will be great- otherwise it will be simply he said, she said kind of debate.
Ciao~
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
Original Post re Chief Justice of Pakistan was re the Institutional Failure in Pakistan - where he held both Political & Military leadership responsible. Although he conveniently missed out Justice Qayoum, Justice Afzal Lone, Justice Nasim Hassan Shah etc., roles' in strengthening institutions.
Most of the info I have is from horse's mouth or from persons who had direct and strong contact/connection with concerned department; it's not based on what e.g., Geo / ARY reported.
Institutionalizing Corruption was done more by Politicians than Military although both are responsible but Military was actively doing this through N$ and then PMLN and PPP branded this strategy for their benefit and still continuing this as you can see how civilian authorities are being run; SBP, SECP, FBR, FIA, NADRA etc., - This is my pov and it backed by not only first hand info but I am in possession of documents that spells out clear plan of how to manipulate pillars and make them corrupt so authoritarian rulers can not be questioned by any form of law.
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
..... Any positive change within current systems is impossible!
In your head, changing the system simply means replacing the system! Sorry that's entirely your fault!
Maybe the OP can spell it out word by word what he means .....
Believe it or not, system can be changed from within without being replaced!.
You guys can sort it out among yourselves.
Have fun!
Re: Politicians Failed Pakistan - Again?!?
You guys can sort it out among yourselves.
Have fun!
Yes - Current Systems (As-Is - in hijacked condition where every arm of civilian government is controlled through corruption be it voting, or anything related to: SHO, Tehsildar, DCO, Katchery, Judge, Police, ECP, Patwari, Income Tax, Customs etc.,) = Status Quo
I did not know here people ONLY understand EXACT literal meanings and there is no room for understanding of implied or oblique angle of the context which is being discussed in the light of other/previous posts/threads/discussions.
No wonder Pakistani general public is confused about off-shore companies as they believe that off-shore company tou off-shore company hoti hai chahey halal ki kamaye se banaye gai ho ya haram ki – when the whole premise/argument is not to define an off-shore company but to blur the difference between Halal and Haraam ki kamai.
Have Fun!