Polarisation of Pakistan

During the 80’s we used to have the odd bomb blasts, but the situation was not too bad. That was the time when the economic situation was better and people were proud of being Pakistanis.

During the past ten years or so the polarisation is touching alarming levels. The society is breaking down!

We are divided along religious lines, sects, ethnicities, right/left divide and this polarisation is increasing with the passage of time. I dont see any way these differences could be reconciled any time soon. This division can be seen along political lines as well where pmln has converted into a punjabi party, PPP from rural sindh, mqm urban sindh, religious parties and anp from KP and nationalists from balochistan.

What steps are needed by the government to address this issue and stem this trend if not reversing it at this stage?

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^ We need a war to get united, onlly if we survive the war at the first place...

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^ yes but the two wars that have engulfed us during the past 10 years, have created more fissures than ever. If the situation is not checked we could see Punjabi nationalism to rise as well.

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Bas isi ki kasar reh gai hey... :(

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this is a great topic Ali....spot on...polarization and subsequent denial have reached to an unprecedented level in the Pakistani society...and yes just 15 years ago we used to introduce ourselves as pakastanis but now.....

what really frustrate me is the ultimate conspiracy driven culture and ability to deny almost everything....almost everyone in Pak is convinced that the root cause of terrorism in Pak is the US occupation of Afghanistan without accepting the fact that these militant groups were nurtured by our securities establishment for decades ... tolerated them and in some cases cultivated the establishment and proliferation of these militant groups...

we were playing and nurturing snakes for over 30 years and sooner or later something was ought to happen which would turn these snakes against Pakistan...911 and US occupation of Afghanistan simply exposed the ultimate dichotomy within Pakistani establishment.....

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It won't be easy. The conspiracy theorists are right to an extent, in that the US has been meddling in Pakistan for decades, but not in the manner they suspect. The Army, with the blessing of the US, systematically eliminated proponents of peaceful cooperation between sects of Islam and Hindus, something which goes against the wishes of the US in shaping Pakistan to be the thorn in India's side.

I don't think you can attack this problem directly. Any overt, direct attempt to curb religious fundamentalism will simply cause people to dig in their heels.

  • We'd need someone who stands up to the US when sensible, this should appease the masses who hate the US unequivocally.

  • On the other hand, you need to systematically, but quietly, start removing religious leaders and corrupt politicians and generals. I'm talking Pakistani Gulag. Some people will cry about it but the sad thing is that if it's done quietly, the general public will not care.

  • The third thing is to start taxing the wealthy. If they resist, then bring them in (meaning jail time), and do so with as much noise as possible. Show the people that you care about changing the country. It's drama, but the public eats it up. You need to deal swiftly with the most corrupt of the wealthy, but make a fair plea to others, most of whom, I believe, will come along. They must see that taxes are necessary to inspire the masses, and to turn the country around.

Hopefully, the "shows" above would start to generate revenue, and would start to curb the most outspoken religious fundamentalists. If the country starts to turn around economically, and things like power outages are not a problem, then people will naturally shift away from the likes of the TTP who would want to disturb this progress. A few years down the line, once the public is on your side, *then *you come down hard on the TTP through military actions, and you begin the reform of the constitution.

This is very general, but the basic idea is that you need to take away the sea of hatred that consumes Pakistan. Doing so requires standing up to the US (in a limited manner, since we still rely on their aid), economic reform, and subtle actions against extremism. Maybe someone else can comment on this, but I feel that the government is not particularly concerned with the violence, as long is it's manageable.

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I wonder what that would look like and will it tussle violently with the army?

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I don't know how it will look and maybe it's still far fetched, but a few things that I have seen during the last 10 odd years is that Punjab which has been supporting PAKISTAN army when the others used to blame it for excesses through out the country is also now openly speaking out against the conduct of the military. The army which is considered by the other provinces to be punjabi army is under attack by punjabi militants too. Punjab is cursed by other provinces due to its utter size which also forces people to think about what we have achieved so far in the context of Pakistan.

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I dont think that the issue can be resolved by target killings. The polarization is at alarming levels and is multi layered:

Ethnic - Punjabis vs other ethnicities

Religious - Muslims vs Hindus/Christians and Ahmedis

Sects - Sunni vs Shia

Political Alignment - Right/Left

These fault-lines are there and increasing with the passage of time. All these need to be tackled and throughout the country.

I am not sure how this could be achieved, it would be a long arduous journey ahead but something that needs to be tackled on priority now.

Maybe a few pointers could be:

  • Some sort of political reconciliation with some sections of the society under something like the South African Truth and Reconciliation to remove the misgivings between ethnicities, sects and religions;

  • Change in laws to include all areas under the political/judicial frame work of the country;

  • Safeguards within the constitution to give equal rights to all ethnicities and a more representative army;

  • Some sort of provincial autonomy (this government has worked on that to some extent);

  • Active involvement of tribes, and religious leaders to isolate the taleban and other religious extremists;

    • Changes in laws to ensure the people involved in terrorism get punished for their crimes;
  • Rapid development in the most impoverished areas of the country;

I agree with the bulk of your post.

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^ Excellent points and agree with everything. My point about "removing" basically referred to imprisonment of the most extreme leaders in each sect. There are some who do not wish to compromise. Get rid of them, and then negotiate with the rest. It's extreme, but I think you need to do that to limit the hate speech that pollutes the arena.

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guys great discussion and some really good points... but i doubt a political government can achieve that ...it has to compromise....every political govt has to compromise

so are you guys saying, we need an ata turk type guy? not going to be easy to accommodate such guy in today's global environment

also one more thing, as we do in every red team blue team strategy exercise ... think of the closest comparable and how has he fared? how has india survived? more sects, more religions, more languages, more nationalities, more provinces, more population, more ethnic backgrounds yet moving along.... not in perfect condition but moving along....remember we are fine with a Pakistan that has normal proportion of problems.....so what is the fundamental difference when we compare india to pakistan? think abt it but be unbiased..maybe we will get to some sort of root cause

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Ataturk was exactly who I was thinking of in my comments. I don't know too much about his dealings with the British, but I imagine he faced similar pressures from Europe and the Soviets as Pakistan faces from the US. Given the state of Pakistan, the leader would have to be fairly heavy handed in some matters, and subtle in others. He or she would have to play nice with both the West as well as the religious parties.

phoenix, what kind of difficulties are you referring to? Our politicians already break laws and are the poster children of corruption. "Positive corruption", while a betrayal of the ideals of proper governance, would help solve our problems. Of course, they raise further issues, like the erosion of democracy, but that's dependent entirely on the person. Zardari is abusing the government for his own gains. What if someone were to abuse the government's power to help the state? Sort of like a vigilante.

I think the fundamental difference between India and Pakistan is that of identity. Indian history is filled with invading forces bringing different aspects of their culture to that of the subcontinent. As such, any Indian state, even if it's a Hindu majority, has to be secular in order to accommodate such differences.They face problems with corruption and family politics, just like Pakistan, but religion has a defined place in Indian politics. Furthermore, all of the political culture, and the stability went to India. Pakistan had the unique opportunity, just like America did, to define itself. Of course this is double edged sword.

Pakistan's identity has been confused from day one. Religious parties feel that the state was made for them. If not, what reason was there to split from India? Contrary to this view, from his lifestyle, ideas, and speeches, Jinnah clearly wanted a secular state, where a Muslim majority would live peacefully with all other sects. The paradox is solved by understanding the relationship between Jinnah, Gandhi, and the British. Gandhi was a Hindu mystic who wanted a Hindu state, who encouraged the exodus of Muslims out of India. Jinnah wanted unrealistic Muslim representation in the Indian congress. The British, worried about the "communist threat" and India's proximity to these states, played upon these views to encourage the creation of Pakistan. In fact, Jinnah commenced only after obtaining approval from the British. So you can see that from its conception, Pakistan's identity was in question. Had Jinnah lived, I believe a secular form of government would have been established much firmly.

Of course, religious parties will ignore all this, and insist on a theocracy. The fact is that India's identity was provided by necessity and political stability, whereas Pakistan's identity was never established, and the subsequent military coups and political acquiescence to religious parties, were a result of this, and the cause of many of our problems today.

p.s. Like phoenix asked, I would love to hear opinions on who you guys think could provide leadership to reform the country. I don't really have anyone in mind.

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Region of Pakistan was always polarized even before partition, look at the history of elections in Punjab for example, in 1937 Unionist party win all the Muslim majority areas and Punjab Muslim League only had two seats.

its not a new phenomena, don't forget PTI - they are also contributing towards more polorization.

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We will survive this war but it will take painfully long time.

I don't think so their will be any rise in Punjabi nationalism why:

1) south Punjab as separate province
2) leaders representing Punjab are tend to be more pro-pakistani
3) Punjabis's being more industrialists will have check on this trend
4) Muslim League

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Ali it is a great topic you have started. In fact I was talking to someone who is currently taking a course on this subject in National Defense University in Islamabad where this worksop is being conducted with people from different spheres of life including some army generals, businessmen, media persons, technocrats, bureaucrats, politicians, and other stake holders.

First of all we have to identify the challenges we are facing today and we are going to face in future. Our population will grow to 300 million by 2050. We have a huge influx of young people who will need jobs. Indus water territory we have done several years ago with India has big flaws which will eventually lead to big water shortage in the country. Presently we are wasting 64% of our available water resource compared to around 30% global average. Then the present and future energy requirements. Skill development to run every sphere of our country is lagging behind big time to face these challenges.

The first and foremost problem this country is facing is religious militancy. Army at the moment wants to undertake a serious operation to eradicate this menace including in the areas like North Waziristan. There biggest problem is the political consensus. There are major political groups in the country like PMLN, PTI, JI, and other religious political parties who do not show clarity of thoughts in support of such attempts. Without resolving this problem we can not move even an inch further.

The ethnic fracturing of the country is a reality and will always remain. We need acceptance and tolerance to overcome this problem. Forget about the possibility of one party representing all the ethnic-regional divides. Even in India ethnic-regional politics is very strong. There is nothing wrong with these regional groups as long as they tolerate each other. Eventually to form governments they will have to form alliances which will bring everyone in to the main stream. This is not a huge problem, and if the political process takes it's due course everything will settle eventually.

The problem is there are certain initiatives for which we have to rise above regionalism for the sake of our survival and well being as a nation. Water projects are one area which are absolutely essential for the country. Defense-infra structure-energy-communication are other areas where regionalism can effect big time. Combined long term fiscal policy also needs an approach above regionalism. All these areas require maturity which is not present at the moment.

Having said that we have immense opportunities which lie ahead of us. With proper skill and business development we can take these opportunities.

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Whats Pti's role in the polarisation? They have never been in power and maybe never will. What is the role of the military establishment, plus the two parties which have been ruling the country for the past 30-40 years?

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this would be a big challenge for Pakistan to control, as the polarisation is on multiple levels.

[QUOTE]
First of all we have to identify the challenges we are facing today and we are going to face in future. Our population will grow to 300 million by 2050. We have a huge influx of young people who will need jobs. Indus water territory we have done several years ago with India has big flaws which will eventually lead to big water shortage in the country. Presently we are wasting 64% of our available water resource compared to around 30% global average. Then the present and future energy requirements. Skill development to run every sphere of our country is lagging behind big time to face these challenges.
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I agree we need better management of resources, like water, energy and electricity. Jobs need to be created, by starting industrial zones through out the country. Try to bring the most underdeveloped areas at par with the others. For catering to these jobs requirements we will need appropriate skills development. When the youth will become busy in jobs and education, half of our problems will go away.

[QUOTE]
The first and foremost problem this country is facing is religious militancy. Army at the moment wants to undertake a serious operation to eradicate this menace including in the areas like North Waziristan. There biggest problem is the political consensus. There are major political groups in the country like PMLN, PTI, JI, and other religious political parties who do not show clarity of thoughts in support of such attempts. Without resolving this problem we can not move even an inch further.
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While there is no question about this that militancy needs to be tackled and urgently. But there are some issues that we need to see. The Pakistani army has been carrying out operations for the past 8 years or so, but why even those areas which were previously cleared are not safe. Why?

We are in the state of war for the past 8 years, how many militant leaders have been arrested and punished? Have we setup some centralised antiterrorism mechanism? Has the intelligence gathering improved?

Do we need to under take full fledge operations, or targeted operations against specific targets will be more fruitful as we could nab the top brass without collateral damage?

I think the government will need to carry out intelligence based operations against certain targets. Take help of the tribals and all schools of thought for bringing the people together and isolating the terrorists. Punish them through the due course of law.

Why can't our courts punish culprits, resulting in the military's abduction, killing and dumping which further alienates people? If there are some issues in the laws (like evidence) it can be changed to bring it in line with other countries.

How can we militarily defeat the terrorists when they have safe havens across the border in Afghanistan too? For a second lets believe that we defeat the militants in fata, what about the growing intolerance in Punjab? I think we will have to neutralise the terrorists, make them irrelevant and isolated.

[QUOTE]
The ethnic fracturing of the country is a reality and will always remain. We need acceptance and tolerance to overcome this problem. Forget about the possibility of one party representing all the ethnic-regional divides. Even in India ethnic-regional politics is very strong. There is nothing wrong with these regional groups as long as they tolerate each other. Eventually to form governments they will have to form alliances which will bring everyone in to the main stream. This is not a huge problem, and if the political process takes it's due course everything will settle eventually.
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to settle this issue we can make use of truth and reconciliation, changes in the constitution to give equal rights to the provinces, rapid development, more share in the military and bureaucracy.

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How can the government be blamed for polarization based on religious sects? blame the bloody sheeple.

As long as sheeple fall for this religious nonsense the establishment will continue using religious difference as teh way to recruit or to help terrorists recruit! when beardos like zaid hamid can recruit so called educated college students by using religion and saying stupid things like God made Pakistan for this and that.....just sheer sheeple!

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I agree with you. If you interact with common Punjbis as well as Punjabi businessmen and intelligentsia, you won't find any inclination towards Punjabbi nationalism. Punjab has the least amont of nationalism slogans and tendencies as compare to the other provinces.