Pointless Indulgences

Society Religion & Philosophy
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So after an all too brief hiatus from Gupshup and a return to shia-sunni debate threads, I find myself wondering what I usually wonder at the end of all such shia-sunni, pak-india, amreeka-islam, iran-bangladesh bickerings. what kind of people do this thing?

How many people here actually come here willing to change their views? I certainly have never changed my core views even when I have run out of answers. I have often seen people go MIA when they dont have answers, or at best be relieved if the conversation veers off, and I have done it myself. There is very little intellectual integrity if you can see an argument someone is making, see the flaws in it, and stay mum only because hes on your side. Or if you can help another poster answer questions put to him, but dont do so because hes on the other side. Sometimes your own questions.

What then does it mean if someone has no answers to your questions? You had none to his another time. You wont change your mind, beause you would rather choose to back the beliefs you’ve always held and think the answer might be out there somethere. you will dust yourself up, find a weak point of his, and attack another time. Only those few who are novices in these things will ever change their minds after a debate, because they dont know how easy it is to be right, and how easy it is to be wrong, without really being either. do you not feel criminal in taking advantage of that?

it is all about disdain for others. it is all about arrogance in your own beliefs. it is a little bit of showboating. winning someone over through your grand intellect is a fringe benefit. if its not about something its about you changing your mind.

professional religion and related posters i’d like your views

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

i have just had the equivalent of being hit with a wet sack filled with pennies when an esteemed mod helped me see that this thread is the ultimate indugence in showboating one can perform in the religion forum. while that wasnt my intention, we are creatures of habit, and i was thoroughly enjoying my percieved idea of superiority till esteemed mod came along.

kindly read the above with a pinch of "hes already been chastened". the ideas are still valid, so im letting it stay.

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

ravage brother I find your views very tolerant and understanding, even though I am not from your fiqah, and also they are very informative, but then we have other people who just want to get their point across and spread hatred

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

Ravage, what makes you think that your post can change thousands and thousands years of practiced behaviour?

You know what they say...If you can't change the things around you, change yourself...:D

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

When I first joined Gupshup I was hardly making any attempt to do anything in accord with the Shariah. I indulged in many arguments and said much out of ignorance, which I shouldn't have. However, to an extent, it were these arguments that got me into looking up sources and I sort of started taking interest in Islam (actually there's more to it than GS alone). I found myself frequenting Religion forum on a regular basis and read and learned much.

No doubt guidance comes solely from Allah (SWT) and Gupshup has surely played an important role. Over the years my views and beliefs have both changed and I could honestly say that reading material posted here has helped me out a lot.

The readings and different views have made me far more tolerant than I was ever before (still have a long way to go) and I have learned, absorbed, and put into practice much of what I have read here.

Yes, many could be coming with the intention to stir trouble, but there are many others who come here with the intention to learn more about their beliefs as well as of others.

Given the busy schedule that I've had over the past few years, Gupshup really has been one of the ways I sort of stay in touch with the Islamic side.

Also, I'd like to use this opportunity to apologize to the individuals whom I have offended in the past.

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

Is this about my Karbala thread? :-|

Ghazal
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Re: Pointless Indulgences

personally, i do not come here to change my view or anyone else view; rather just come to learn and gain knowledge. In the process of learning views are altered.

Like Sadiya said: "Yes, many could be coming with the intention to stir trouble, but there are many others who come here with the intention to learn more about their beliefs as well as of others."

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

Sir, could you please translate your statement in a familiar language :confused:
preferably ba’muhawara urdu !
By God, It is not our fault that we can’t understand this language. The soldiers of british army never let us utter more than few words …
'Yes Sir ’ , ‘thankyou sir’ ‘Long live the queen’

I hope Iraqi children would be able to speak better english :k:

Paapay :)
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Re: Pointless Indulgences

Ok on the topic :

My view change regularly and drastically.

you said

[quote]

I certainly have never changed my core views even when I have run out of answers.
[/quote]

and Mr. itsme01 said

[quote]

personally, i do not come here to change my view or anyone else view; rather just come to learn and gain knowledge
[/quote]

On the contrary, I come here (not only religion, but GS) to change my views

Paapay :)
Paapay :)
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Re: Pointless Indulgences

arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics..even if you win, you are still retarded

ravage..i havnt really found anything u said that i disagree with..we might have to talk about Hazrat Mukhtar though

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

:rotfl:

It could equally be about the little caveman who drew stick men and stick animals on caves. Its that instinct to carve your initials into trees. To scrawl 'I woz ‘ere 2006’. maybe the pointless indulgence is there for you to just be.

personally though i reckon it’s a big conspiracy to make right wing conservatives of us all before 32. Thats the retartded bit sheraz mentioned.

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

sighz They are not pointless indulgences. They are highly important contemporary issues over which muslims at large still fight with each other and with others over. Its important to address them, and create a discussion on these topics, to spread awareness and bring all sides of the issues to the table, so that people can make informed decisions on their own beliefs and so that people can expand their knowledge. For many of us, there simply are none to few venues in our own communities of learning Islam, and even if there are, then its usually one guest speaker we hear. There is minimal chance of debate in our own communities, because no one likes to challenge common ideas in our faith, even if they (hey hey) may very well have nothing to do with our faith.

Hence people come on here to discuss topics. There is no sense in getting personal or emotional over it. People all over the world are now asking more and more questions about Islam, since its so much in the limelight (and much of it is negative publicity). What else would you expect from people in this day? Its the Age of Information.

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

Very few, Ravage Bhai, Very Very few.

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tmx bhaijan, shukriya

Lajawab--yeah thats what i aim for, dont think i stick to it tho :1

Sadiyah..itsme..codey: i think you have the right approaches to it. And yes the religion forum has been a way for me to stay in touch with religion and i have learnt plenty. none of you i think would qualify for most of the observations I've made, which were aimed at the group I (try not to) belong to, those who are especially active in debates and such. those who share that mindset can probably identify some of the thoughts up there.

codey.. yun to meri angrazi per bhi angraiz ki koi khas inayat nahi, lekin mein nahi chahta ke meray sachai ke motiyon sai aap faizyaab na hon.. lein translation:
*
kafi bhigo bhigo ke laganay ke baad mujhe aik mod-e-nadehenda nai is haqiqat e nashagufta ki taraf nazar pherne per majboor kar dia hai ke ye dhaga bhi intiha darjay ki khudparasti hai. go ke ye mera irada nahi tha,hum sab apni aadaton sai majboor hain. mein apnay ehsaas e bartari sai kafi mehzooz ho raha tha jabtak ke mazkoora modni nai rang mein bhang nahi mila dia.

chunanchay parhney walay azhaan mein ye khayal rakhain ke agar unhain bhi is qism ke kuch khayalaat ayein, to hum to pehle hi sharminda hain. baqol shair

Murday ko Musalmaan Jalaya nahi kartay!
*
hhp: its been a while since i saw you posting! nice observation there about the writing on trees, i think that is very true.

sheraz: bhai i edited it to say "good and bad people".. as far as i knew Mukhtar was sort of a gray area in our history too. I think I need to read up some more on him :--)

pcg: no it wasnt about your karbala thread. im sorry if that wasnt clear and you though i was getting personal. but if you see my posts over the last say five days, they've been largely in three or four such threads, and it gets a bit much. starts as trying to share the information you have, somewhere in the middle it morphs into something else. But I agree with your thoughts about how we must have dialogue, and how challenging established ideas can be a good thing.

Im not sure I am for shia-sunni debate type threads though, maybe information seeking threads, but threads explicitly opened for "you have this problem" and "no, you have that problem" are pointless trivializations of faith.

Aejaz bhai.. hum aur aap jaisay loge itnay kam kyu hain :(

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

If the quote is yours then I must say :biggthumb

Ravage Bhaya, Is tarjumey ka bohat shukria, Ab saari baat samajh main agai hai. Jaan kar hairat howi ke aap jaisa Jahaandeeda shakhas sinf-e-nazuk ke agay bhegi billi ban gaya :(
Bas itna kehna tha us mazkora modni ke barey main ...

Us Jaan-e-taqallum ko, tum mujh se tu milwatey !
Taskheer na kar paata, Hairaan tu kar jaata ....

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

aapka andaz e sukhan hamaray fehm o adrak say balatar hay.

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Re: Pointless Indulgences

farigh lohg. :rolleyes: