PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

[Jolie]

Re: PMLN’s U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

Islamabad may be sealed tonight - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Who needs martial law when you have Sharif brothers and their personal militia aka Punjab police (now Gullu Butt) on the loose. The entire province is choking. There is a complete lock down in Punjab. I ask the paladins of democracy - is this democracy? Right to protest, right to oppose to is every Pakistani’s democratic right allowed by the constitution. Who are these Sharif thugs to stop people from protesting?

In London, they allowed 15000 protesters to come in hold their pro Gaza/anti government protest in the main shopping artery of Oxford Street! This is what you call democracy and respect for citizens’ rights. And no I’m not comparing Western democracy to Pakistan, but least they can do is to learn a thing or two about freedom and democracy from its own neighbours! As many as 78,444 agitations were reported in India, in the year 2012 alone! Is democracy is in danger in India, I ask?

[Jolie]

Re: PMLN’s U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

@arshad5

I agree with you that those responsible for either buying the wrong ink, producing the wrong ink or not following the correct procedures should be identified and punished. That in itself is not a reason to try to topple a government. I am not saying that we should expect or accept vote rigging, I am saying that the system needs to be reformed thoroughly so that everyone has confidence in the system. Didn’t Imran Khan say that he has going to introduce an electronic voting system in KP, and if that should be good for KP then that should also be good nationally.

Benezir Bhutto campaigned against rigging and effectively toppled N-League Government in 90s, but did she introduce thorough electoral reform? PMLN also accused PPP of rigging in 2008 elections, did they introduced thorough reforms? The PPP was officially the first party to reject 2013 election results and protest over rigging, yet in the last 14 years, how much have they done to push for electoral reform and expose rigging they actively condemned? Imran and PTI never accepted rigging and they have been rightly and justly fighting to have an authorise inquiry into just four constituencies - a demand that was perfectly in synch with constitutional, legal and democratic framework of Pakistan. Why did the party, who you believe have won and fair square and is miles better at administration than PTI, did not open up those four constituencies for sake of democracy? Where was the harm? It has to be said that yowl as much you want over Imran’s protest, however do keep reminding yourself that even his protests are within the constitutional and democratic framework. And don’t worry about Imran losing your or others’ support, there’s never been a moment in Imran’s political career where he didn’t lose a little support here and there to gain something much bigger.

It’s easier to indulge in bit of feel good character assassination and come up with lazy sophistry to blame Imran for being power hungry. When in actual fact, anyone who’s been following Pakistan with great interest and for prolonged period can put its personal vendetta and political bias aside, and admit and appreciate that Imran has successfully turned anti rigging wishy washy PR rhetoric (that Pakistanis are so used to hearing and uttering) into a fierce ideological battle that actively calls for direct actions. He has effectively placed the entire present and future of democracy in Pakistan on the ideology of free and fair elections and functioning tribunals and courts. If Imran wanted to become a PM, honestly he would’ve become one long time ago by hook or crook. But he clearly feels passionate about free and fair elections or else he would not have boycotted 2007 on the same ideological ground, despite facing profound pressure and criticism from all corners, and actually having a fair chance at winning many seats. I don’t see how people make it seem like IK woke up one day and decided to take a stand against rigging, he had been preparing the case and building the momentum since last 14 months! It’s about time Pakistanis (especially the ones living and cashing all the benefits of free and fair Western democracies) to realise that democracy doesn’t mean holding elections every five years and swapping one political family for another, it’s about holding free and fair elections!

Even if the government is removed, do you think elections due in 90 days would produce a rigging free elections? do you think that we should have military rule for 3 years while we put in place a new system and amend the laws? Mid term polls are democratic but the governments needs to lose a vote of confidence in order for mid term polls to take place, or it needs to dissolve parliament otherwise they are unconstitutional. The way things stand now it would be unconstitutional to try to topple the government through force and civil unrest.

This is something Imran has yet to reveal, and withholding of such policies is all intentional, I feel. PTI is making their future strategies ad future demands public in batches which I don’t support, but from what I have heard, I believe if the government goes, polling will be held under complete and extended supervision of army. That’s my understanding so far.

I would be happy for Nawaz Sharif to go after 4 years and Imran Khan to win elections but frankly PML N has a better grip on administration than PTI. Imran Khan admitted that KP will be a test for PTI and people will be watching KP, and so far PTI has not done much in KP, and it needs to get its house in order before trying to run the federal government. I also don’t see much difference between PTI and any other party at the moment as it is being run by people from the same privileged class. Even today in the paper was a story about Asad Qaiser appointing his relatives to some positions without merit.

You claimed that PMLN has a better grip on administration than PTI, and they won fair and square. Then answer a simple question that despite 14 months into government, why they haven’t launched a single inquiry to find out what happened to that Rs 9 billion worth of magnetic ink? Why no single inquiry has been made in that regard? Do you realise how seriously anti democracy this scam this? And why the ex NADRA chief was harassed and removed in middle of the night right after agreeing to do the thumb verification? Why did the Model Town massacre happen? Why the entire province in locked down at the moment? Why people of Pakistan’s freedom and democratic rights are being curbed?

Since you are so fond of PMLN’s administration skills. Please name and explain the appointments in the following departments to me:

**According to TI, “the establishment division issued on Jan 13 notifications with the approval of the prime minister in which it exempted appointments on key posts in various organisations including the National Electric Power Regulatory Authority, Oil and Gas Regulatory Authority, Public Procurement Regulatory Authority, Pakistan Telecommunications Authority, Trade Development Authority of Pakistan (TDAP), State Life Insurance Corporation, Competition Commission of Pakistan, Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan (SECP), Pakistan Agriculture Research Council, Pakistan Medical and Dental Council, Drug Regulatory Authority of Pakistan, Evacuee Trust Property Board, Engineering Development Board, Pakistan Industrial Technical Assistance Centre, Small and Medium Enterprises Development Authority, State Cement Corporation, National Database and Registration Authority, Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority, Lok Virsa, National Telecom-munications Commission, Telecom Foundation, Pakistan Baitul Maal and Alternative Energy Development Board. In this regard on June 20, Justice Shaukat Aziz Siddiqui of the Islamabad High Court had also restrained the federal government from making appointments on high-profile positions that violated the SC verdict”.
**Transparency urges prime minister to cancel illegal appointments - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

…And please also explain the appointment of HEC Chief, removal of NADRA chief. While you are at, please also shed some light on how Nawas Sharif’s nephew is managing the WAPDA and energy crisis. Has the price of electricity gone down? Are we producing more electricity? How is his daughter managing the Youth Programme, on what merit was she gifted the Rs 1.2 billion project? Tell me what’s happening with the Rs570 million Nandipur project. Explain the drastic and costly increase in circular debt. And we’ll allow the great ‘typo’ Ishaq Dar in a IMF report this time. Answer all these, and I’ll give you dozens of other brilliant example of PMLN’s great administration.

Imran Khan admitted that KP will be a test for PTI and people will be watching KP, and so far PTI has not done much in KP, and it needs to get its house in order before trying to run the federal government.

Unlike PMLN, PTI has no record of spending billions and billions on PR and self advertisement (read more on Nandipur scam to find out exactly how PMLN progress starts and ends in advertisement to fool the masses) and buying media houses. Just because media doesn’t give KPK reporting paramount importance, doesn’t PTI has ‘failed’ there. De-politicisation of police is the hallmark of PTI’s success in KPK. No major financial corruption case has come out of PTI or KPK’s assembly since last year. Since you talked about polls in your post, I hope you are aware that in the most recent comprehensive government performance survey rated PTI performance above PMLN. PTI has been making steady progress in improving health, security, education, environment, legislation, energy, welfare. PTI went ahead with its historic polio eradication movement despite constantly losing its members and volunteers in all round brutally targeted Taliban attacks. The security situation of province has staggeringly improved and beyond everyone’s expectation, while Zarb e Azab is going on, read how KPK police is constantly doing a crack down on militants and foiling terror attacks. But all in all, I am actually amused and surprised and put off by your naivety - comparing a government of an old status quo party which is ruling a naturally prosperous and stable province for the sixth time, with a newbie party in power for the first time in war-torn province that too in a coalition!

[arshad5]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

First of all I don't know who did rigging of votes I suspect a few parties may have. However I still think that PML N would have emerged as the single biggest party with or without absolute majority, Imran Khan would still not have been a Prime Minister. The reason for the 4 constituencies not being opened up could be as the decision rests with the election tribunal or the courts. Other reason could be fear by PML N that it is being targeted by PTI unfairly and where will it stop. After the 4 will PTI demand 40 constituencies being opened up, and after that mid term polls. Why is there no mention of vote rigging by MQM for instance. If the incorrect ink was used as you mentioned earlier then the truth is that we will not know how many votes are bogus which does not necessarily mean vote rigging but it could be presented as such.

I don't know about any lockdown, I spoke to someone in Lahore today and was told that petrol pumps are open and petrol is available, so I don't think the picture is as bad as it is being presented in the media. I think that parties should be allowed peaceful protest but there should be zero tolerance for criminality. I think Mr Qadri is overstepping the limits and should be dealt with firmly.

As far as governance is concerned, PPP was much worse and why was Imran Khan quiet at the time, now governance is much better, many projects are in the pipeline that should address a lot of problems in the country. However you cannot demand mid term polls just because you don't like how the government conducts itself. They are entitled to remain in power until 2018.

[Jolie]

Re: PMLN’s U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

@arshad5

First of all I don’t know who did rigging of votes I suspect a few parties may have. However I still think that PML N would have emerged as the single biggest party with or without absolute majority, Imran Khan would still not have been a Prime Minister. The reason for the 4 constituencies not being opened up could be as the decision rests with the election tribunal or the courts. Other reason could be fear by PML N that it is being targeted by PTI unfairly and where will it stop. After the 4 will PTI demand 40 constituencies being opened up, and after that mid term polls. Why is there no mention of vote rigging by MQM for instance. If the incorrect ink was used as you mentioned earlier then the **truth is that we will not know how many votes are bogus which does not necessarily mean vote rigging but it could be presented as such. **

As far as governance is concerned, PPP was much worse and why was Imran Khan quiet at the time, now governance is much better, many projects are in the pipeline that should address a lot of problems in the country. However you cannot demand mid term polls just because you don’t like how the government conducts itself. They are entitled to remain in power until 2018.

Do you know what you are talking about? Please don’t present your lack of information as truth. Little knowledge is very dangerous. So far, they have opened up 11 constituencies (correct me if I’m wrong) where bogus votes are being counted in tens of thousands. I suggest you do a little research on all investigated constituencies and find out what vote rigging and bogus votes really look like. I’ll give you a little example to start you off, below the is the result from only preliminary investigation of NA-118:

Electoral fraud: NADRA finds rigging in records of NA-118

**LAHORE: **The National Database Registration Authority (NADRA) has found rigged votes in the record of ballot papers from NA-118, Lahore, The Express Tribune has learnt.

According to a report submitted by the authority to the election tribunal, the record of only 68 of 251 polling stations in the constituency were provided to NADRA. The total number of votes here was 46,118 and only 15,835 voters’ thumbprints were verified.
NADRA’s report added that 4,043 votes were found to be cast against invalid CNIC numbers, and NADRA states that identity cards with these numbers were never issued by the authority

I hope you know that PTI candidates have also been de-seated according to investigation results. If Imran is asking for a re-poll, don’t you think he doesn’t know that many black sheep within his party would also lose their seats? After all, 418 anti rigging cases have been filed by all political parties. It’s about setting a right precedent to establish a correct system. Once re-polling (be it local or national) becomes the next step in case of legally verified rigging, many status quo and criminal politicians would think twice before rigging people’s votes after knowing the imminent possibility of re-polling which would not just result in losing of seat, but a complete cancelling of their political licence.

The reason for the 4 constituencies not being opened up could be as the decision rests with the election tribunal or the courts. Other reason could be fear by PML N that it is being targeted by PTI unfairly and where will it stop

If the decision rests with the courts, then why is PMLN’s giving Imran the guarantee that they will now open 10 consistencies for him? If they have won fair and square then what are they afraid of? Why didn’t they prove Imran Khan wrong and damaged his credibility by opening up those four constituencies, assuming they have nothing to hide? This simple gesture of opening four constituencies and subsequent positive findings would’ve regained people’s trust in the system, present day democracy and reinforced the legitimacy of Nawas government. But as they say, a lie has no legs.

First of all I don’t know who did rigging of votes I suspect a few parties may have. However I still think that PML N would have emerged as the single biggest party with or without absolute majority, Imran Khan would still not have been a Prime Minister.

That’s irrelevant. The fight is against rigging and for free and fair elections. Not to win a majority or earn premiership.

Just because some polls predicted NS win, doesn’t mean PTI has no right to speak up against rigging.

However you cannot demand mid term polls just because you don’t like how the government conducts itself.

True. But you can certainly demand mid term polls if you can prove that the government enjoys a stolen mandate, hence illegal. More power to PTI if they can prove this.

As far as governance is concerned, PPP was much worse and why was Imran Khan quiet at the time, now governance is much better, many projects are in the pipeline that should address a lot of problems in the country. However you cannot demand mid term polls just because you don’t like how the government conducts itself.

You are still struggling, are you? This is what I mean that Imran has successfully and commendably turned an empty rhetoric into a fierce ideological battle. Either people are rising up and taking a ‘never again’ attitude to rigging, and striving for direct solution or there are people sitting on the fence or sitting with the devil, doing everything possible to trivialize rigging - the biggest crime you against democracy and complete abuse of the rights of enfranchised citizens - all in the name of democracy. I can’t look past this painful hypocrisy.

No, the ultimate battle is against rigging, dynastic nepotism, bad governance, civil dictatorship, abuse of institutions. All these factors get lum put together to highlight what happens when people don’t stand up for their rights and fight for true democracy.

[arshad5]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

Do you know what you are talking about? Please don't present your lack of information as truth. Little knowledge is very dangerous. So far, they have opened up 11 constituencies (correct me if I'm wrong) where bogus votes are being counted in tens of thousands. I suggest you do a little research on all investigated constituencies and find out what vote rigging and bogus votes really look like. I'll give you a little example to start you off, below the is the result from only preliminary investigation of NA-118:

I hope you know that PTI candidates have also been de-seated according to investigation results. If Imran is asking for a re-poll, don't you think he doesn't know that many black sheep within his party would also lose their seats? After all, 418 anti rigging cases have been filed by all political parties. It's about setting a right precedent to establish a correct system. Once re-polling (be it local or national) becomes the next step in case of legally verified rigging, many status quo and criminal politicians would think twice before rigging people's votes after knowing the imminent possibility of re-polling which would not just result in losing of seat, but a complete cancelling of their political licence.

If the decision rests with the courts, then why is PMLN's giving Imran the guarantee that they will now open 10 consistencies for him? If they have won fair and square then what are they afraid of? Why didn't they prove Imran Khan wrong and damaged his credibility by opening up those four constituencies, assuming they have nothing to hide? This simple gesture of opening four constituencies and subsequent positive findings would've regained people's trust in the system, present day democracy and reinforced the legitimacy of Nawas government. But as they say, a lie has no legs.

That's irrelevant. The fight is against rigging and for free and fair elections. Not to win a majority or earn premiership.

Just because some polls predicted NS win, doesn't mean PTI has no right to speak up against rigging.

True. But you can certainly demand mid term polls if you can prove that the government enjoys a stolen mandate, hence illegal. More power to PTI if they can prove this.

You are still struggling, are you? This is what I mean that Imran has successfully and commendably turned an empty rhetoric into a fierce ideological battle. Either people are rising up and taking a 'never again' attitude to rigging, and striving for direct solution or there are people sitting on the fence or sitting with the devil, doing everything possible to trivialize rigging - the biggest crime you against democracy and complete abuse of the rights of enfranchised citizens - all in the name of democracy. I can't look past this painful hypocrisy.

No, the ultimate battle is against rigging, dynastic nepotism, bad governance, civil dictatorship, abuse of institutions. All these factors get lum put together to highlight what happens when people don't stand up for their rights and fight for true democracy.

For argument sake lets say that all the votes that are not verified are not due to a clerical error, and all those votes have been cast in favour of PML N and none has been cast for PTI. I have 2 questions. First would be votes that are not verified, if they are removed, would they have changed the outcome of the constituency or would the outcome have still remained the same. . Secondly if yes the outcome would have changed, then why not have a by-election in those particular constituencies.

Your liking or disliking of the government is irrelevant if they have won and been sworn into power, and still enjoy the confidence of the house then they are entitled to see their term through. Just as you are vocal for PTI others are equally vocal for PML N. You cannot keep asking for re-elections until you get elected. PTI has been elected in KP but I have not seen anything revolutionary there. Imran Khan has sold his soul to the devil for power. I question the wisdom of having power at the expense of losing yourself and your ideals. The consitution is clear, the law is clear, Imran Khan has lost the moral high ground by asking for mid term polls. Why is the focus not on vote rigging by MQM? because it would not make Imran Khan the PM, only by dislodging the PML N unconstitutionally can Imran Khan hope to become Prime Minister.

Why is he saying that he trusts the Chief Justice of Pakistan and then says the Prime MInister must resign before he trusts the Chief Justice after Nawaz Sharif agrees for commission formed by Chief Justice of Pakistan to investigate the matter.

Lets see if Imran Khan can bring the 1 million people that he has promised or would he start giving lame excuses if he fails to deliver. Lets see if this is just a media circus or if 1 million people will come onto the streets of Islamabad.

Imran Khan has joined hands with a anarchist that advocates violence to achieve his ends and does not believe in the constitution of Pakistan. He does not believe in Parliament, who has never had more than one seat in Parliament.

Also talking about Parliament Imran Khan wants to go from ever having had one seat to being the Prime Minister of Pakistan. How many times has he actually even attended Parliament? It seems that it is beneath Imran Khan to attend Parliament and to represent his electorate.

[waleedhbk]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

IK giving his press conference

[Jolie]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

For argument sake lets say that all the votes that are not verified are not due to a clerical error, and all those votes have been cast in favour of PML N and none has been cast for PTI. I have 2 questions. First would be votes that are not verified, if they are removed, would they have changed the outcome of the constituency or would the outcome have still remained the same. . Secondly if yes the outcome would have changed, then why not have a by-election in those particular constituencies.

Yes, everything is possible only if tribunals and courts start responding to those over 400 petitions. Launch investigations, and depending on the results, authorise re-polling. That's the whole point But are tribunals and courts doing their jobs? After 15 months of dilly dallying, ridiculing, using and abusing, pressurising, politicisating independent state institutions, the fraud Prime Minister offers under the table deal to grieving party only after the threat of agitation becomes a fast approaching reality? What kind of 'good administration' and democracy is that?

[QUOTE]
Your liking or disliking of the government is irrelevant if they have won and been sworn into power, and still enjoy the confidence of the house then they are entitled to see their term through. Just as you are vocal for PTI others are equally vocal for PML N. You cannot keep asking for re-elections until you get elected. PTI has been elected in KP but I have not seen anything revolutionary there. Imran Khan has sold his soul to the devil for power. I question the wisdom of having power at the expense of losing yourself and your ideals. The consitution is clear, the law is clear, Imran Khan has lost the moral high ground by asking for mid term polls. Why is the focus not on vote rigging by MQM? because it would not make Imran Khan the PM, only by dislodging the PML N unconstitutionally can Imran Khan hope to become Prime Minister.

[/QUOTE]

Your liking of disliking and plain hatred of Imran is also irrelevant. It is PTI's democratic and constitutional right to protest and speak up for what they believe in. The political mobilization of masses cannot be taken lightly, nor demonised if you want people to take your democracy bragging seriously. If the government has won and square according to you, then government should not have anything to fear from these protests. So why suppress them? Only explain such this you know and respect true democracy, otherwise don't bother.

Your logic doesn't up, if Imran hasn't done anything good in KPK and his coalition partners have also expressed their concerns over rigging in KPK, why would he put everything at stake to campaign free and fair elections?

[QUOTE]
Imran Khan has sold his soul to the devil for power. I question the wisdom of having power at the expense of losing yourself and your ideals.

[/QUOTE]

Newsflash: Democracy is the clash of ideas and values! Those who don't know jack squat about this noble system are the types to get too insecure and defensive when they confront difference of ideas and values.

[QUOTE]
Why is he saying that he trusts the Chief Justice of Pakistan and then says the Prime MInister must resign before he trusts the Chief Justice after Nawaz Sharif agrees for commission formed by Chief Justice of Pakistan to investigate the matter.
[/QUOTE]

Yes. The man who prevented independent state institutions from launching investigation for long pending cases, blatantly and repeatedly lied to public that courts are at fault, suddenly says we will open 10 constituencies for you if you talk to us, cannot be trusted.

[QUOTE]
Imran Khan has sold his soul to the devil for power. I question the wisdom of having power at the expense of losing yourself and your ideals. The consitution is clear, the law is clear, Imran Khan has lost the moral high ground by asking for mid term polls. Why is the focus not on vote rigging by MQM? because it would not make Imran Khan the PM, **only by dislodging the PML N unconstitutionally can Imran Khan hope to become Prime Minister.

**mran Khan has joined hands with a anarchist that advocates violence to achieve his ends and does not believe in the constitution of Pakistan. He does not believe in Parliament, who has never had more than one seat in Parliament.

Also talking about Parliament Imran Khan wants to go from ever having had one seat to being the Prime Minister of Pakistan. How many times has he actually even attended Parliament? It seems that it is beneath Imran Khan to attend Parliament and to represent his electorate.
[/QUOTE]

You are so paranoid and fixated over Imran Khan that you fail to see anything beyond his name. Just because you don't like Imran (and please don't come up oh once upon a time I used to be a PTI supporter bla bla bla) you will do everything to demonise his message for a free and fair elections and trivialise rigging all in the name of democracy that basically means saving the House of Shareef at any cost.

Even if there's guarantee that mid term poll would result in a hung parliament, would you still bash Imran and condemn free and fair elections? And what If mid term polls give Nawas League a clear majority once again, would you still condemn free and fair re-polling?

[arshad5]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

Yes, everything is possible only if tribunals and courts start responding to those over 400 petitions. Launch investigations, and depending on the results, authorise re-polling. That's the whole point But are tribunals and courts doing their jobs? After 15 months of dilly dallying, ridiculing, using and abusing, pressurising, politicisating independent state institutions, the fraud Prime Minister offers under the table deal to grieving party only after the threat of agitation becomes a fast approaching reality? What kind of 'good administration' and democracy is that?

Your liking of disliking and plain hatred of Imran is also irrelevant. It is PTI's democratic and constitutional right to protest and speak up for what they believe in. The political mobilization of masses cannot be taken lightly, nor demonised if you want people to take your democracy bragging seriously. If the government has won and square according to you, then government should not have anything to fear from these protests. So why suppress them? Only explain such this you know and respect true democracy, otherwise don't bother.

Your logic doesn't up, if Imran hasn't done anything good in KPK and his coalition partners have also expressed their concerns over rigging in KPK, why would he put everything at stake to campaign free and fair elections?

Newsflash: Democracy is the clash of ideas and values! Those who don't know jack squat about this noble system are the types to get too insecure and defensive when they confront difference of ideas and values.

Yes. The man who prevented independent state institutions from launching investigation for long pending cases, blatantly and repeatedly lied to public that courts are at fault, suddenly says we will open 10 constituencies for you if you talk to us, cannot be trusted.

You are so paranoid and fixated over Imran Khan that you fail to see anything beyond his name. Just because you don't like Imran (and please don't come up oh once upon a time I used to be a PTI supporter bla bla bla) you will do everything to demonise his message for a free and fair elections and trivialise rigging all in the name of democracy that basically means saving the House of Shareef at any cost.

Even if there's guarantee that mid term poll would result in a hung parliament, would you still bash Imran and condemn free and fair elections? And what If mid term polls give Nawas League a clear majority once again, would you still condemn free and fair re-polling?

I didn't used to be just a supporter, I was a paid up member of his party when Nawaz Sharif was last in power in the late 1990's and Imran Khan did not even have a single seat in parliament and had never even been an MNA at that stage. I was in my teens and I was also an idealist, perhaps I still am. I was a member of his party when he has nobody. Even in the last elections I supported him and made financial contribution to his campaign. So I don't need any lessons from you. Unlike you I am a principled person and I don't follow a leader blindly. Have you seen him on stage when if someone stands in front of him he physically pushes their head down. I have been disappointed by his lack of performance and his behaviour, as he is turning out to be no different than other politicians.

The people that joined him at the start advised him and he did not follow their advice and as a result he spent many years in the political wilderness and now he is following that advice however now he does not need to follow that advice anymore, and he needs to act like a statesman. He still needs to learn a lot about politics. Instead of being a team player he seems more of a loner and a dictator.

[Jolie]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

I didn't used to be just a supporter I was a paid up member of his party when he Nawaz Sharif was last in power, and Imran Khan did not even have a single seat in parliament and had never even been an MNA. Even in the last elections I supported him and made financial contribution to his campaign. So I don't need any lessons from you. Unlike you I am a principled person and I don't follow a leader blindly. Have you seen him on stage when if someone stands in front of him he physically pushes their head down. I have been disappointed by his lack of performance.

The people that joined him at the start advised him and he did not follow their advise and he spent many years in the political wilderness and now he is following that advise however now he does not need to follow that advise anymore, and he needs to act like a statesman. He still needs to learn a lot about politics.

I might actually believe that you are a "principled man" (I must say I do a terrible job at blowing my own trumpet) if you bother expressing all your holier than thou criticism for Nawas Sharif who you clearly regard and defend as a better administrator despite the utter mess and record blunders he's made. Again no word on illegal blockade of Punjab?

[arshad5]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

I might actually believe that you are a "principled man" (I must say I do a terrible job at blowing my own trumpet) if you bother expressing all your holier than thou criticism for Nawas Sharif who you clearly regard and defend as a better administrator despite the utter mess and record blunders he's made. Again no word on illegal blockade of Punjab?

What is wrong is wrong. Let me repeat what I stand for again, as I have mentioned it many times already and have been consistent about it.

I believe that everyone has a right to PEACEFUL protest.
I believe that electoral reform is needed and fully support Imran Khan in protesting to achieve electoral reforms.
I believe that where vote rigging is proven and it would have changed the outcome of the result then by-elections must be held there.
I believe that Imran Khan must deliver in KP and prove that he has made a difference so that people will vote for him to become the Prime Minister.
I believe there must be competition between the parties but in governance and development and not just slogans.

However I do not believe in Parliament being dissolved and elections being held again across the whole of the country.

[Jolie]

Re: PMLN's U-Turns and Undemocratic Actions

The people that joined him at the start advised him and he did not follow their advice and as a result he spent many years in the political wilderness and now he is following that advice however now he does not need to follow that advice anymore, and he needs to act like a statesman. He still needs to learn a lot about politics. Instead of being a team player he seems more of a loner and a dictator.

Absolute ridiculousness. He's a loner because Your Highness is no longer a paid member of his party? LOL. Don't just throw in random words for sake it, make sure they follow logic to stop yourself looking like a bitter fool.

A Loner politician cannot a raise a sea full people. A Loner politician doesn't become the symbol of youth mobilisation, and a dictator certainly doesn't march for greater democracy and free and fair elections. People who generally disagree with PTI on all major issues, but aren't blinded by personal vendetta, still wholeheartedly agree that PTI is now a massive political force in the country. Loners don't achieve such great feat without a team.

The goons who steal people's import and export containers to block local streets to major roads, impose illegal and undemocratic blockade to stop people from peacefully marching are true dictators.