Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Abhi PML (Q) aur Musharaf ki chitar parade shuru hue to pata chale ga whos the most corrupt..
People have spoken against the most corrupt gang under Musharaf.. the rasa geers of Gujrat have grabbed vasr stretches of lands and waived billions of debt from banks.. now its a time for payback..
Zardari has done great servive to Pakistan’s democracy by not joing hands with PML(Q) amd independents as wished by Musharaf and USA.. :k:
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
no one can say that result was that bad.
Aesi chitar therapy hue he PML (Q) ke stalwats ki.. toba toba.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Yes, that's how the system would ideally work in a mature democracy with a free, informed electorate.
Name a country that has zero level of corruption with perfect system? Our system might be flawed, but it must be allowed to work & the institutions must be strengthen to support the system b/c only strong and stabile system can guarantee stability of the country. Mushrraf had 8 long year to do that, but only thing he did was to manipulate the system to prolong his own stay in power.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
A befitting response to Saleem, I couldn't have said better:D
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Name a country that has zero level of corruption with perfect system?
You're right, there aren't any. That of course doesn't change the fact that Pakistan easily one of the most corrupt nations in the world.
Our system might be flawed, but it must be allowed to work & the institutions must be strengthen to support the system b/c only strong and stabile system can guarantee stability of the country.
The system isnt just flawed...its broken. All the elections in the world aren't going to accomplish stability if fundamental changes arent made to improve the lot of the Pakistani masses.
As long as there is feudalism, there is absolutely no hope for any real democracy in Pakistan.
Mushrraf had 8 long year to do that, but only thing he did was to manipulate the system to prolong his own stay in power.
Nawaz Sharif had six years, and he did such a miserable job of managing the country that people were celebrating when he was exiled.
I don't live in Pakistan...so the results of this election don't directly affect me. If this is what the people of Pakistan want, then its what they shall get...all I can do is shake my head in afsoos, when, three years from now, Pakistan is back to being the same unstable, bankrupt, banana republic it was in the 90's.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Nawaz Sharif had six years, and he did such a miserable job of managing the country that people were celebrating when he was exiled.
I don't live in Pakistan...so the results of this election don't directly affect me. If this is what the people of Pakistan want, then its what they shall get...all I can do is shake my head in afsoos, when, three years from now, Pakistan is back to being the same unstable, bankrupt, banana republic it was in the 90's.
And as result of corrupt military rule is back in the "democracy" game, so what do we do? What kind of rule would work for our country?
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
And as result of corrupt military rule is back in the "democracy" game, so what do we do? What kind of rule would work for our country?
Ideally?
A top down reformer who abolished all feudal land holdings, and equitably redistributed agricultural land among the rural population. It would be great if he/she could also work to improve literacy and education too...a sort of "forced" national modernization.
Obviously such a leader is literally unelectable in Pakistan...the only way this will ever happen is un-democratically.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Obviously such a leader is literally unelectable in Pakistan...the only way this will ever happen is un-democratically.
How can one make sure that such a leader will not become problem for the country? When someone becomes a "leader" with powers, and if he is coming "un-democratically" then chances are that he will be least accountable, meaning we will have to rely on sheer luck for his sincerity and selflessness.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Ideally? ** A top down reformer who abolished all feudal land holdings, and equitably redistributed agricultural land among the rural population.**
....
This type of land-thieving discussion comes out of Marxist theories, that have been roundly defeated around the world.
Most of the sane people now clearly see that government's actions against private property is bad for the government, and worse for its masses.
And still we have in our midst people advocating government's right to snatch private property.
How come we forget the horrors of socialism brought to Pakistan. How can we forget that Islamic-socialist Bhutto senior brought utter death to our industry, banks, colleges, universities. The result has been horrendous drop in productivity and education standards.
Pak industry was poised to match South Korean like progress, but Thanks to ZAB, we are now following North Korean like death and destruction.
Pak education system was producing world's top graduates in engineering, medicine, and economics. Thanks to ZAB, our universities are now cesspools of jihalat.
Pak banks were the leaders in the region, and thanks to Marxist socialist Bhutto, they became the looter's paradise.
Luckily his socialist claws couldn't grab on to our farms, otherwise we in Pakistan would have been begging for food too.
Communist Marxist or socialist attack on farmland always produces hunger in the developing countries. West Bengal in India, Ethiopia, and many other African countries are suffering from food shortages, all thanks to their communist leaders.
It is a shame that our educated elite are born and bred free, and then they become socialist slaves.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement (Merged)
How can one make sure that such a leader will not become problem for the country? When someone becomes a "leader" with powers, and if he is coming "un-democratically" then chances are that he will be least accountable, meaning we will have to rely on sheer luck for his sincerity and selflessness.
None of our leaders are elected democratically. When any jagirdar/wadero can force his tenant slaves to vote for his candidate, how is that a democracy?
At least that undemocratic leader would do some good for the country.
This type of land-thieving discussion comes out of Marxist theories, that have been roundly defeated around the world.
Most of the sane people now clearly see that government's actions against private property is bad for the government, and worse for its masses.
And still we have in our midst people advocating government's right to snatch private property.
I'm not a socialist. I'm not against private property. I hate what ZAB did to the country, and I consider the privatization of national banks & industries under Shaukat Aziz to be one of the accomplishments of the Musharraf administration.
I have nothing against private farms...what I am against is feudalism specifically. These people didn't even purchase their land, and nor did their ancestors...they won it through their servitude to their colonial masters. The right to private ownership does not extend to people...and at the end of the day, that's all the jagirdari system is...glorified slavery.
My grandparents were all from big feudal families in Kashmir. I'm glad our land was taken away and redistributed...I think Kashmir is better for it today.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement
Luckily his socialist claws couldn't grab on to our farms, otherwise we in Pakistan would have been begging for food too.
Are you trying to make me laugh? It's not that he "couldnt" grab on....he didn't want to.
ZAB was himself from one of the biggest feudal families in Pakistan...as is most of the senior leadership of the PPP. All that "socialism" was simply a way to target Karachi's industrial elite and the Mohajir population. As long as the PPP is in power, nothing will be done to address the whole feudalism problem.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement (Merged)
I think it's high-time for all of us to just cool down. Take a moment to respect one another regardless of views. The elections are over, lets get over it. Lets all just offer advice on what should be done next instead of biting each others heads off.
A fellow poster feels we should all unite and be heard as one united voice, all for Pakistan.
Lets all say atleast one nice thing about each other in the other thread, it'll go a long way.
Thanks.
Re: PML-N & PPP Reach Coalition Agreement (Merged)
I was watching Makhdoom Javed Hashmi's interview on television today. He is a fairly central leader of PML-N. He clearly said that while PML-N will lend its number to PPP to prove majority, PML-N will not be a part of the government (no ministries etc).
Not sure how this will work after the immediate future. Most likely PML-Q will disintegrate and their members will run to either PML-N and PPP. At the same time, now that PPP realizes that PML-N is not really joining the government, PPP will be better off grabbing some other smaller groups for a more permanent partner in the government (and numbers game). ANP is already in the fold. MQM will now be a serious contender to join the federal government. That will insure PPP against PML-N backing out any time on any significant policy/strategic issue. Whether PML-N will be willing to help PPP-led government, when their public enemy #1, MQM, is also there, remains to be seen.