Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
IF PML-N quits, then I think they will gain a lot of credibility.
Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
First, let me remind all readers, my prediction that this PML-N PPP dosti and bhai chaara won't last beyond Mushy.... so this is all temporary.
Second, at this time, PML-N may pull out of federal cabinet (thats also a bit dicey, IMO), but they will not quit supporting PPP in the federal, and consequently PPP will not ditch them in Punjab Assembly. So snickering and rejoicing at the prospect may be a bit like premature ej**ulation. Thand rakho, sabb :)
And lastly, PML-Q is on a severe diet plan, with its ranks shrinking. Most of its MNAs/MPAs are largely JJUN (JeDha Jeetay Udhay Naal) and have no ideological sympathy or loyalty with Chaudhries of Gujrat. So expecting any kind of long term future for PML-Q is silly. Once Mushy is gone, so will this faction.
Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
The PML N will not quit, rather it will be forced to accept a 'face saving' forumla which restores the judges (incl Iftikhar), but strips the CJ and the judges of all effective powers to do anything against the govt. Then the question will be, if Iftikhar Chaudhury will accept the humiliation of being the powerless CJ of a toothless judiciary?
Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
i have supported N's stance on several issues especially when they took oath saying they will restore deposed judges. They have even included this in their manifesto. If the PPP stabs them in the back, N should resign from the assemblies along with ministiries. I say this because whats the point of sitting in assemblies and on the treasusery benches when you cannot implement the main part of your manifesto.
Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
The PML N will not quit, rather it will be forced to accept a 'face saving' forumla which restores the judges (incl Iftikhar), but strips the CJ and the judges of all effective powers to do anything against the govt. Then the question will be, if Iftikhar Chaudhury will accept the humiliation of being the powerless CJ of a toothless judiciary?
While you celebrate over these trivial issues ask yourself a simple question. Why does Nawaz want to restore the judiciary and Ifti Chaudry? Is it because Nawaz is a Western style democrat who loves a free judiciary?
Not a chance. If he betrays his promise on this issue he will lose all credability with the people - especially in Punjab, The same is true for the PPP. Zardari is already widely despised, to betray the Murree decleration ensures that PPP will be destroyed in Punjab in thenext election.
It is a simple matter really. Either way Mushy will be the loser. Restore Ifti now, or see this issue kill you at the next election.
In all of Punjab from Bahawalpur to Lahore to Pindi right to Murree no politician has an ounce of popularity compared to the CJ. Understand this and get it through your head right now because its the simple truth. Its the reason people like Sheikh Rashid and Kasuri and the Chaudries couldnt win in ridings they've been winning for ages. Its also the reason Mushy will be held accountable for all his actions some day.
Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
Brother thanks.
Actually, it sometime really surprises me why PPP has given up the opportunity to rule Punjab? I believe that if it was BB than she would not have left this opportunity at any cost. As for Judges, those
Both parties plus most in Pakistan know that all what happened is because Musharraf is very lenient and good hearted, else to give a hard kick to dancing lawyers would have been very easy (fact is that they had almost no support amongst masses, but delay in kicking them did give them a following and some amongst masses started thinking that government is weak).
Now what I feel, situation is that Musharraf is not commanding army directly, so if these politicians (or judges under their instruction) would try to destabilise the government as Nawaz wants, then President ordering the army to act (or army themselves deciding to act) would not end in bloodless coup but could be very bloody coup where politicians as well as many amongst destabilising factors would get slaughtered, as when army moves, they do not see constitutions or laws, neither they ask anyone to justify their actions.
NOTE: Regardless of how much you differ with anyone, lets not be disrespectful.
Captain1 Saheb: you deleted 'khotays' considering that I was disrespectful to (?). I know that I was a bit disrespectful to 'Khotays' comparing them with Pakistani Judges and I am sorry to 'donkeys of the world', but who YOU think I was disrespectful? Khotays or Judges?
Khotays are hard working respectful animal who serve people without any question and gets appreciation less than the work they do, never complains to their masters and gives respect to hands that feed them, are certainly more respectable than many of Pakistani Judges and people like Iftikhar, who can be seen living beyond their known income as they sell Justice for money, influence, promotion, worldly gains, or pressure.
One should know that Musharraf has done more for Judges and Pakistan judiciary than any past rulers. Musharraf must have thought that judges are so corrupt in Pakistan because they do not get enough to live the way they like to live. So, Musharraf gave them huge pay rises and plenty of financial benefits, plus make them free from their future worries by increasing their pension (that he linked with ongoing Judge wages thus increasing with time). But Musharraf did not realised that mentally crooks stay crooks whatever they are paid.
Just imagine that in 1998 judges use to get around Rs 20000 a month, use to rarely get pay rises and it was known amongst Pakistani society that one could buy judges cheaper than lawyers, but after 1999 when Musharrf took over, Judges got huge pay rises (it was Rs 134000 a month in 2007 plus much more facilities and pension package that a Judge could never have dreamt before), further constitutional changes in 2004 gave Judges facilities (against desire of many politicians) that they could have never dreamt in life, that includes unprecedented pension packages in terms of money, privileges, and facilities that last much after their death (precisely, pension lasting until their wife plus unmarried daughters dies), increase in retirement age (I think it was from 60 to 65), long possible tenure as Chief Justices (from 5 years to unlimited years depending on their retirement date), etc ... still Pakistan judiciary under Iftikhar became more corrupt and increased their ranking amongst corrupt institution of Pakistan from 4th to 3rd, then how such Judges can be considered better than khotays?
If Chudhari Iftikhar can do injustice to a poor Baloch student by depriving that student from getting admission in Medical college and later in government job so that incompetent son of Iftikhar can get admission in medical college and later get government job, then how can anyone consider such person and judges backing such person respectable and expect justice from such Judges for others? Plus Iftikhar son use to drive BMW as student at time when Iftikhar wage was less than Rs 20000, showing element of corruption.
[Here I am assuming that all allegations in reference against Iftikhar are correct because Iftikhar instead of contesting the allegations in reference against him preferred that SJC do not investigate him. If he was not guilty of those allegations than he would have preferred to get investigated and come out of those allegations clean.
I am also assuming that Arsalan illegally obtained admission in medical college and later illegally obtained job in civil service could not have deprived an influential student but must have deprived poor Baloch kids (in admission as well as job) whose only source for success was hard work, but selfishness and nepotism of Iftikhar deprived them from achieving their goals what these poor Balochs deserved]
Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
Nawaz brings nothing to the table aside from the judges issue. He has no policies at all, and can hardly scrape a sentance together when asked a question by a reporter. It must always be remebered that electoral votes he got for his stance on the judges was very limited. Consider the facts that :-
- PML N cam 3rd place nationally in the elections, behind the PPP and PML Q.
- PML N only got 19% of the votes.
- PML N came 2nd place in Punjab, behind the PML Q which actually came 1st.
- PML N won 0 seats in Sindh and Balochistan, and very few in NWFP.
http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/p/pakistan/pakistan2008.txt
So supporting judges has limited electoral effect, as most people are more concerned with bread and butter issues. Those issues Nawaz has no policies on at all.
Re: PML-N may quit cabinet? if no agreement on judges
‘PML-N to part ways if deposed judges not restored’
Saturday, April 26, 2008
By our correspondent
Karachi
Federal Minister for Commerce, Trade and Industry, Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, has declared that if the deposed judges were not restored by April 30, the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) would part ways from the coalition government in protest. Talking to journalists after the inauguration of ‘Thailand Exhibition 2008’ on Friday, Abbasi said that the Murree Declaration should be abided by the parties concerned to restore the judiciary within the stipulated time of 30 days. He said that the removal of judges has become a laughing stock for everyone and the PML-N had enough of it. The minister said that the PPP had already been intimated about the PML-N’s option of withdrawing from the coalition government. He, however, said that they would continue to support the government even if they withdrew from the coalition. He suggested that a resolution should be passed in the assembly vis-‡-vis reinstatement of the deposed judges. Abbasi said that there was no tussle between the president and the coalition government, adding that with the revocation of 58(2B) the conflict between the presidency and the parliament would come to ultimate end.