I was recently introduced to these two verses of Koran from Surah Nisa, and was somewhat amazed because I am not aware of punishment to lewd women ever practiced in Islamic countries as described here in Koran. Secondly I could not figure what is the meaning of
" Two men" in second verse. Can some one explain these verses with references. Thanks.
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YUSUFALI: If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
PICKTHAL: As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
SHAKIR: And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.
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YUSUFALI: If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: And as for the two of you who are guilty thereof, punish them both. And if they repent and improve, then let them be. Lo! Allah is ever relenting, Merciful.
SHAKIR: And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
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And those of your women who commit illegal sexual intercourse, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them (i.e. women) to houses until death comes to them or Allâh ordains for them some (other) way
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And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both.] And if they repent (promise Allâh that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allâh is Ever the One Who accepts repentance, (and He is) Most Merciful.
Re: your second question... it should be "two persons", and not necessarily "two men". I think YusufAli may have made a mistake. All three other translations we have up there, don't mention "two men".
Or else, these two ayat may refer to lesbians and gays, respectively. I am not sure.
The first verse was the original punishment for commiting Zina, which was later abrogated, with the new punishment being 100 lashes for fornication (in surah Nur) and stone death for adultery.
I just want to say that i dont think that you, Analze this, should be asking other to translate the meaning of the Qur'an as i think no one is a sheikh/scholar or a student of knowledge on this message group to translate the Qur'an. Someone might reply back giving the wrong translation or misinterpreting it totally wrongly, and this is a big sin. unfortunately i cant find any ayahs or hadeeth to back my opinion but insha-Allah i am looking. just be careful please
Analyze it… are you still stuck at these two ayat? Or are you still fascinated with these two ayat and can’t figure them out yet, please clarify. It seems kinda odd, that after all these months, you will come back and ask the exact same question again.
The holy Quran does not prescribe stoning as the punishment for adultery. There is not a single verse to this effect. The Holy Quran stipulates the punishment of “a hundred stripes” for the act of adultery, zina (24:2). If a particular sentence is prescribed in the Holy Quran a harsher one cannot be imposed. The holy Quran also requires the fulfilment of an almost impossible condition before conviction can result. Four eye- witnesses have to testify to sustain the charge (24:4).
I am honored to see that there are people who are following topics so closely. Even I forgot that I had asked the question before not so long ago, in Dec 2002 to be exact.
So Dec 2002 is toooooo long. Less than 3 months ago. Should 3 months be considered recent or remote.
The reason I posted it again was that no one answered it properly in last postI As I looked it again) so I was not satisfied.
BKW tried last time unconvincingly.
Now for the firt time in this thread " M" has explained it clearly that this order was later abrogated which is to my utmost satisfaction.
Faisal your point about Gay and Lesbian is intersting but other translators have different translations and did not use the word " Two men", I am not sure why Yousuf Ali used the word " Two men".
Kool Kuri, Welcome to Gupshup with your first post.
If you read mypost, I myself presented the authentic translations and asked others to post translations with references, not their personal translations or interpretations. and dont be afraid to express your opinion if you can.
Here is the answer. It is illogical to provid four witnesses to a rape or to make a woman house bound as if she is the criminal. Such things keep the people from evolving.
Now Analyze it...I don't want to see this topic next year. :)
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*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Analyze it,
Islam is asking for 4 witnesses which I say is great I'd strongly suggest you find Texas law... You don't even need a witness....
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In Texas law there is rape which is illegal sexual intercourse.
If two person commit sexual intercourse with will and consent it is not considered " Illegal" in Texas law..
BTW you think it is great to have the condition of 4 witnesses. To be very honest and practical do you expect to have 4 persons actually witnessing the sexual intercourse??
I really don't think so.
I find it hard to believe that in any case of illegal sexual intercourse we can find four persons who actually witnessed it therefore any Woman who would blame a person can never find four witnesses.Think of its practicality. It is probably the hardest crime to prove or disprove.
In Texas law there is rape which is illegal sexual intercourse.
If two person commit sexual intercourse with will and consent it is not considered " Illegal" in Texas law..
BTW you think it is great to have the condition of 4 witnesses. To be very honest and practical do you expect to have 4 persons actually witnessing the sexual intercourse??
I really don't think so.
I find it hard to believe that in any case of illegal sexual intercourse we can find four persons who actually witnessed it therefore any Woman who would blame a person can never find four witnesses.Think of its practicality. It is probably the hardest crime to prove or disprove.
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You got it all wrong here let me post the extract one more time w.r.t. 4 witnesses....
(24:2). If a particular sentence is prescribed in the Holy Quran a harsher one cannot be imposed. The holy Quran also requires the fulfilment of an almost impossible condition before conviction can result. Four eye- witnesses have to testify to sustain the charge (24:4).
In other words husband cannot accuse his wfie without 4 witnesses nor can he secure a conviction...
In Texas if you see your spouse in bed with another man and kill her you can get away with a slap on your wrist.
You got it all wrong here let me post the extract one more time w.r.t. 4 witnesses....
(24:2). If a particular sentence is prescribed in the Holy Quran a harsher one cannot be imposed. The holy Quran also requires the fulfilment of an almost impossible condition before conviction can result. Four eye- witnesses have to testify to sustain the charge (24:4).
In other words husband cannot accuse his wfie without 4 witnesses nor can he secure a conviction...
In Texas if you see your spouse in bed with another man and kill her you can get away with a slap on your wrist.
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Discussion is about Islamic law , not Texas law.
In Islamic law If a woman is raped and she brings charges against
the rapist, how would she bring four witnesses?
