Please Confirm and Answer My Questions (Help Requested)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I want to thank all the scholarly muslims who regularly impart so much of their knowledge to ignorant people like myself.

I have some questions and am not sure about some things. Kindly help me clear up these issues.

1.Who is Imam Mehdi?

(My sunni upbringing has lead me to beleive that Imam Mehdi will apear at the Kabah and will be recognized by some muslims.He will lead the fight against Dajal until the arrival of Issa Alai Salam.)

Am I right? Please confirm from your deep knowledge of Islam.

2.Who Is Dajal?

Dajal is an imoral being who will enslave the people with wealth power and cruelty. Those who suport him will prosper and those who reject his divine claims will face hardships. (Is this correct?)

3.Imam Mehdi will apear and lead the muslims in their resistance to Dajal.During our Darkest hour Jesus will descend from the sky.
His 2 hands will rest on the shoulders of Angels. His Hair will be like that of dripping water. He will then Slay Dajal and establish peaceful law and order.

Because Hazrat Eisa is not dead he will die a natural death on the planet and then Qiyamat will aproach eventualy.

Please confirm if the information and the belief I hold is correct.

Now I have some questions.

What was the claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahab? Did he claim to be Mehdi?
Or Did he claim to be a Messenger?Mehdi and messenger are 2 seperate things. Am I right?

According to my limited knowledge Mehdi is not a messenger like Moses or Jesus or Mohommad. He is simply a Man of Destiny who will come to lead the muslims. He will not make any additions to the Islamic Faith. He will be the protector not the Founder of Relegion.

According to my Sunni Perspective, Mehdi will fight Dajal.

If I have some wrong knowledge or if this is disputable please let me know. I am very greatful to all the Educated people who come here and provide information.

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I found the following information at www.naqshbandi.net/haqqani/qiyama/imam.html regarding the first question posted by stud.

[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited April 18, 1999).]

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Dear Stud,
I would like to add this to the discussion posted by iqadeer, that we must not forget the saying:

"lal mahdi illa eesa"
( there is no mehdi, except jesus )
Muslim, volume 2, page 515

comparing it with the sunni beleif:
"kaifantum iza nazala fee kumubnu maryama wa imamokum minkum"
( how would you be like, when son of mary will descend to you, and your imam will be from within you )
Bokhari, kitaabul anbiya, baab nazool-e-eesa ibn-e-maryam"

Now if we take the belief that promised messiah, and the imam mehdi are two different persons, we go against the first saying. It belongs to a godfearing person not to reject any ofthe above sayings, and compare them to decide what they mean. However, upon examination, it becomes very clear, that what seemed to be two individuals, have been explained by the prophet as one.

the hadith
"there is no mehdi except jesus"
has been reported in three very reliable books:

1) Muslim, volume 2, page 515
2) Ibne maja, baab shuddahuzamaan, page 257
3) kanz ul amaal, volume 7, page 156

also note:
" yo shako man aasha minkum anyalqa eesabne maryama imamun madiyan "
( soon, those of you who are alive, will meet jesus son of mary, when he is the imam mehdi )
masand-e-ahmad ben hanbal, volume 2, page 421

For shias, there book "behaar ul anwaar" quotes abu-l dardaa narrating:
"ashbahunaas e be'eesaabne maryama"
( that imam mahdi will be like jesus son of mary, more than any other human)

So it is perfectly clear that there is but only ONE person who had to come. He was supposed to be like jesus son of mary. As jesus was the messiah of Moses, He is the messiah of Mohammad.

AN EXAMPLE:

If i say, that muzna, our moderator is "hitler", what will it mean? will it mean that hitler climbed the sky???? or that hitler is alive?? no! you yourself know that it will mean that she is LIKE hitler.
When the name of a dead person is associated to someone alive, it only means the he is similar to the dead person.
In the same way, the name jesus son of mary, was associated with the promised messiah. No koranic verse and no hadith tells us of jesus being alive. koran and hadith clealry state jesus to be dead.

==============================================================================================

As for the claim of mirza ghulam ahmed sahab, i have established thru his own words what his claims were. He claimed to be the mujaddad for 14th century, the promised messiah, the imama mehdi, and a prophet.

Although sunnis argue that the mehdi is not a prophet like jesus moses or mohammad, but prophet mohammad himself have made it clear:

"awwhi allaho ila eesa ibne maryama"
( that the promised messiah will be given "wahi" by allah )
this has been narrated in:
1) Muslim, volume 2 page 411
2) mashquaat page 473

For shias,
imam abu jaafar says:
"wa yohiyaa ilaihe fa ya'malu bil wahi be amarillah"
(that imam mehdi will be given "wahi" and he will act upon it)
this has been related in:
1) bahaar ul anwaar volume 13, page 200
2) najmussaqib volume 1, page 66

Please note that prophet mohammad has, in a saying, associated the word "nabiullah" FOUR times, with the promised messiah ( Muslim, volume 2, baab zikre dajaal)

Thus there is no doubt whatsoever that the promised messiah HAS TO BE a propjet of allah.

" O Children of Adam! If there should come to you, messengers from among you, relating my signs to you, then whosoever is godfearing, and makes amends- no fear shall be on them, niether shall they sorrow. And those that deny our signs, and wax proud against them- those shall be the inhabitants of fire, therein dwelling forever"
( the koran, chapter 7, the battlements, verse 36 )

=======================================================================================

O seekers of truth!
Seek the truth, as the doors of heavens stand opened.....It is the day, promised. So open your eyes, and behold..... What was this fourteenth century? The moon in its fourteenth night. Allah spreads his light..a sheet covering the earth. Will you now fight with allah? will you now bang your head, against a castle, strong?
( mirza ghulam ahmed of qadian )

( i will soon write clear prrof's over the claim of mirza sahab in a new thread )

So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

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[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 19, 1999).]

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We as muslims are more in need of Imam Mahdi than ever before in the history of Islam. Too bad, according to Ahmadis' perspective we have lost the moment of having Mahdi come to our aid close to a hundred years ago. Therefore, if I subscribe to Ahmadi theory I have no chance against the enemies of Islam since the Mahdi has come and gone in Mirza's form. Or may be the Ahmadis can come up with a yet more novel idea that Mirza will return as Mahdi again or perhaps he has conferred this spiritual title to the current Amir or shall I say Amirs of the movement.

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jewels said,

No koranic verse and no hadith tells us of jesus being alive. koran and hadith clealry state jesus to be dead.<

Funny. I won't ask from where he got this piece of info.

By the way, jewels mixed the ahl-e-sunnat's belief (which is the mainstream one) and ahl-e-tashee's. Shia scholars believe Mahdi 'll be their last (and 12th) Imam. They consider all these Imams to be above the level of all prophets. Sunni don't believe in this concept of 'imamat' and to them Mahdi (as well as Ali, Hussain RAA or Jafar Sadiq, ZainulAbideen rahmatullah alaih.. etc) are all Prophet Mohammad's 'ummatee' and not the recepients of any 'wahee' whatsoever.

Asif said,

if my post seems a bit harsh it is only from imaan.<

Sorry, it was more than just harsh. I am deleting entire post.

Thank you.

[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 19, 1999).]

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Mr. I Qadeer

He is complaining that we are in serious need of Imam mahdi. I totally agree

Then he said that Imam Mahdi for Ahmadi people has already gone. I agree

Here comes the tricky part

He said even though the mahdi for ahmadis is gone but still we can’t see any change. we have lost the time of mahdi as he said.

My reply is very simple Bhai,

Its like a spot light on the stage. Only that part of stage is illuminated, rest is dark. So if you sit in dark and then complain that there is no light then probably there is a serious problem. All the prophets before Muhammad SAW promised their people that there will be a prophet in the future who will revive every thing. Of course that was refering to Hazoor SAW. But when he came, still many people remained in dark. What do you think about Abu-jahal, he can complain that I cannot see any change. But the change was only for those who accepted islam. Rest was dark.

So, as ahmadis we have accepted him as mahdi and our lives are changed, as simple as that.

Then iqadeer said,
I have no chance against the enemies of Islam since the Mahdi has come and gone

Ma’shallah we are fighting against enemies of islam quite effectively. But if you want to fight with enemies using a sword, I am sorry. There is no chance for you in ahmadiat. May be you can contact Usama bi Laden. He will help you in this matter.

MY Question

I always like to ask this question that Hazoor SAW promised that there will be a mujadid reviver at the start of each century. And we saw that many Mujadidin came in past for e.g mujadid alif sani, shiekh abdul qadir jeelani, shah wali ullah, moiudeen ibne arabi, etc…** But my question is that if mahdi haven’t came yet where are the mujadid’s of last two centuries?**

MIRZA YASIR

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8

Dear Freinds,

IQadeer,Jewls, Asif, DeepBlue,MirzaYasir,

Accept my deepest gratitude for your scholarly presence on this forum. Every Day I learn a lot and I realy like the way all of you qoute the Quran, Hadith. Every time I come here I learn something new and it is very nice to see that all of you have an indepth knowledge on Islamic History.

Ofcourse I dont beleive everything I read and often double check for my own complete understanding.

As I was unsure about some Issues I think they are now clear.

  1. Imam Mehdi is going to be a rightly guided Leader.

  2. Mirza Sahab Claimed to be a Prophet of God.

3.Ahmedis beleive that Jesus is Dead Mirza Sahab was the promised Mehdi and guidance for muslims.

4.We (Sunnis) believe that Mehdi is yet to come and Jesus is still alive.

I opened this thread with the pure intention of gaining knowledge. I do not wish to argue any particular perspective. My questions have been well answered and I thank you all very much.

Stud

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I seek refuge in Allah, from Satan the Accursed.

Qadiyani Mirza Yasir, you ask about who are the two mujaddids of the last two centuries.

13/14th Islamic Century: Hazrat Mawlana Khalid al Baghdadi al Naqshbandi quds sirruhu

14/present Islamic Century: Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Barelvi quds sirruhu.

I hope the Moderator wont delete this post either.

Remember that to deny kufr is also kufr. This is a qa'idah [principle] in Sunni fiqh and by ijma' the founder of the Qadiani religion was outside the pale of Islam and an apostate.

wa salaam aLA MAANITABA al huda
peace be upon the rightly guided]

[This message has been edited by Asif (edited April 20, 1999).]

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Mirza Yasir said

[quote]
Ma'shallah we are fighting against enemies of islam quite effectively
[/quote]
. So now the entire qadiani community has transformed in Imam Mahdi. By the way, what did Mirza acheived in his capacity as Imam Mehdi other than dividing Islam further in a sect and allegedly by currying favors from the ANGRAYZ BAHADUR. And where is the proof that you are fighting against the enemies of Islam and not for them. The only fight it seems that the Qadianis are fighting right now is to defame the sunnis and get recognition of their cause from around the world. So are the sunnis now enemy of Islam?. You all have some nerve, man.

[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited April 20, 1999).]