Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

^ if anyone follows them becomes a muslim ( atleast) so why did u say that ahlulbat is for non-muslims /
u dont by any chance believe in that hussaini brahmin legend do u ?

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I dont have a case here, Das. You had 1. And this thread shows in its own way why its such a vague one too.

Why do you feel threatened so much? I doubt anyone would ever 'convert' on a discussion forum where people communicate under the names such as Pagluu, Aaloo,or Das Reich. Relax!

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Because I see Fiqah Jafariya as the school of the Ahlul Bayt (as).

If a Christian man actually starts following Ahlul Bayt (as) then this person wont be a Christian anymore, would he?

The Hi/Bye Thread
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I made a distinction between 'love' and 'following' there. For example, 1.5B Muslims love the Prophet but not the same number **follow **him. You need both to become a Muslim- the type that Hazrat Ibrahim and Hazrat Ismael (as), prayed to Allah (swt), to be.

Whats Hussaini brahmin?

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Most people also do not like the style of Sharia you are talking about.

Education is the key if there is to be any sort of change. Most of the people who live under these oppressive regimes in the Muslim world can not force a change mainly because they do not know any better than what they are stuck with. They are made to think that the King has some sort of divine mandate to rule over them. The biggest threat to these kingdoms is the education.

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It has been implemented in various parts of the world in different times, you just need to study History.

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Yes but like any other system it disintegrated. Just study the same history books you are referring to.

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Shariah didn't, Muslim Dynasty did.

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Re: Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

OK let me rephrase then - Shariah is a failed system because the followers don't know how to run the show as it is evident by the history.

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Your statement has still flaws in it. If the followers are morons doesn't mean the system or laws themselves are failed or unseccessful.

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Re: Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

^If the system is not idiot proof then it is flawed by default.

~2013 Memories~
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Re: Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

In order to restore Pakistan by reclaiming the founding moment, will require a load of hard work. The least of which is a tremendous resistance from the Elite (both Secular, Political, and Religious a.k.a. Politico-Religious class). Not to mention the pressure and tactics the world, especially non-muslim nations will exert on a Nuclear Pakistan that strives to reunite all muslim nations and potentially pose a threat to current powers in the world. No one wants to see their business going down the drain by a new born competitor. So sabotage will be a normal occurrence. Can Pakistan and Pakistanis see through the smoke and survive the ride?

Though public or large parts of general Public might wish and hope for a renewed Pakistan ruled as a true Caliphate under Shariah, but that very shariah will declare many, thousands, if not hundreds guilty of previous and current crimes. Who is going to enforce that? Can you punish your neighborhood Maulana if according to Shariah he has done wrong, and taught you that wrong is right? Will you accept the verdict of your own brother being found guilty of any number of social/political/or religious crimes? Remember the Sahaba (r.a.) had to sacrifice much more than we can even imagine in today's term. They were literally at war with their own blood relations (brothers against brothers, sons against fathers, and so on...). That is why when a man asked a sahabi that he wish he had lived in the times of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.), he was scolded by the Sahabi and told that be greatful you are born muslim. Had you been one of the first to be muslim, could you fight against your own father? Would you be on the side you are on today?

So while being greatful of where we are today, we must also remember that the reason Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) told his companions that the people of last age will be rewarded the highest ajar/reward for their deeds is because of the tribulations and the hard decisions we'll have to make if we're to serve Islam. So in light of that, can you sacrifice everything you have come to know? And just how far do you go? All valid questions that need to be pondered over...merely lip service will not do!

I'm not being pessimistic, but i'm just saying many heads will have to roll before Pakistan earns its name "Land of Pure" because there's much impurity in it as we speak right now.

After that stage of it has been achieved, where criminals of all caliber have been dealt with in accordance to Shariah, then you have to literally uproot the current system in place and rebuild it block by block in the example of Earliest caliphates with the most ideal being that of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.). That would mean no one can cheat the Govt., everyone has to give their fair share and pool together resources to help each other so not even a stray dog goes hungry. Because even if a strayed dog went hungry, the ruler/emir/caliph is responsible and accountable for that.

The right candidate: Currently, being elected is like winning the jackpot and Dajjal becomes your best buddy and grants you a wish. Because, you live, eat, breath luxuries and literally swim in wahn (Love for this life, fear of the afterlife). So, when the whole lot of politicians and generations after them have been brought up with this mindset, it will be a hard task to trust one with leadership of such a land where you have worked so hard to achieve a revived Pakistan. Because according to the new laws in place (Shariah), the ruler is truly a servant to the public, and in reality will be as poor or poorer than the public with no more provisions than the poorest of the public because before he can himself eat, he has to make sure every soul in the land has been fed and is satisfied. Can we find a person with that kind of Taqwa, Will to serve, and Strength to give up all worldly gains for the sake of serving Allah's cause of a truly Islamic Pakistan?

Religion before Nationalism: This too will be as hard as the initial step. Can we set aside our nationalism and elect a man of great qualities according to Islam, even if he happens to be a non-Pakistani as our leader? Because remember, in a Caliphate the qualifications are based on religion/character/track-record, and not whereabouts (not specifically anyways). Can you see yourselves voting for or pledging allegiance to an African president for Pakistan? Or will nationalism blind you to stick to "men of the land" if even they're among the worst in the ummah?

The Hi/Bye Thread
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If you have a corrupt ruler then it is easy to twist and misinterprete any rule and regulation of the system, you can't have any system in place properly without the rightous rulers.

You're blaming totally the system itself when we know it's unfair.

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[QUOTE]
Most people also do not like the style of Sharia you are talking about
[/QUOTE]
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but thats irrelevent, either dont call a country islamic state or if u do enforce shariah.Even if majority are against it.

[QUOTE]
Education is the key if there is to be any sort of change. Most of the people who live under these oppressive regimes in the Muslim world can not force a change mainly because they do not know any better than what they are stuck with.
[/QUOTE]

true but i dont think secular education will help them overthrow opprerssive regimes

[QUOTE]

They are made to think that the King has some sort of divine mandate to rule over them. The biggest threat to these kingdoms is the education

[/QUOTE]

precisely thats the problem since our uncle , katib-e-wahi gained power and its been downhill since then.
But they promote the kind of education they want i.e which makes u think shariah is a primitive system which needs to be reformed, etc

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By misinterpretation do you mean loopholes?

The perfect system would not have any loopholes or room for misinterpretation. Wouldn't you think so?

And what do you mean by unfair. If there is a room for misinterpretation then how the system is perfect. Anybody can twist or make their own meanings of the words. I would say that is quite far from perfect. Maybe 1400 years ago, yes. In the current era, no way.

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Re: Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

In all the battles fought during the time of the Prophet (saww), the combined fatalities on both sides did not number more than 1,000 in total. The message of Islam was not spread by sword. I am all for Sharia and living in the peaceful, harmonous and spiritual environment that Islam promises. But I am against the killings of innocents to reach to this dream.

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I am unsure of your faith and forgive me for assuming that you are a Muslim. Here is a verse from the Holy Quran stating that the religion of Islam is perfect in all its aspects:

[5:3]...This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; ...

The question is; does the system itself gives away, everybody and anybody, the right to interpret it according to their own wisdom, knowledge, experiences, whims and desires?

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Re: Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

^Gives away or not but this exactly is happening; every tom, dick and harry has his own interpretation.

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You can't have any system in place properly without rightous rulers and people in authority. That was my point.

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Re: Plan to restore Pakistan- Reclaiming the founding moment

Point taken, however how can a perfect system allows itself to be abused?