--Placing your trust in Allah

Light_Bearer · November 16, 2007, 12:03pm

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

worshipme:

So, Allah is a master of stating the obvious?

You're giving yourself multiple excuses for when Allah does not answer prayer, or when he seems to answer prayer.

If I were to claim to be able to do something, let's say cure a child's cancer, and you asked me to do so, how ridiculous would it sound if I answered:

I may or may not do it,

or I may do it in some other way,

or I may do it fifty years from now

or I may do it if you do it first,

or I may do it if you do something else for me but I won't tell you what I want you to do first

or let the doctor give the kid medicine, then I will heal the cancer.

And then when the child dies from cancer, I simply reply that it was my will. Or if the child lived because the doctors operated and cut the cancer out, I can say that my hand guided the doctors.

Ridiculous, eh? But that is what you are doing when you give Allah multiple escape clauses, so that no matter what happens, you can either say that it was the will of Allah, or that it was man's fault.

Maybe things just happen, and we can simply accept that without having to create gods to explain why.

Very interesting indeed.

psyah · November 16, 2007, 1:48pm

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

Peace worshipyourself

The ability to undertake a function does not mandate that function to be used. It is not ridiculous, it is a fact. The claim is that Allah (SWT) is All Powerful it does not mean that God is going to do the things that you want Him to do. So your statement that 'he won't' is incorrect. When Allah (SWT) decrees a thing it comes to be. God does cure cancer cancers are being cured all the time, not by people by God; the fact is you can't realise this simple phenomenon.

It does not make one wonder why people suffer at all ... one need only read the Qur'an. In it you will see three sets of evidence which are complimentary to wipe out the notion you have just presented.

Suffering in the world is:

a) A result of our own ill informed choices we bring bad upon ourselves but all good is from Allah (SWT).

b) A result of Allah (SWT) testing the people who are both victims and onlookers ... those who pass the test of patience are rewarded those who give thanks to Allah (SWT) for being saved from affliction and help those less fortunate are rewarded.

c) Those of whom have left this world in a state of injustice such as children in accidents or a murder victim then their account in the hereafter will be lighter. They will receive their full justice in the hereafter. This also applies for oppressors and murderers who get away with it in this life.

So you see ... Allah (SWT) cannot be escaped at all but at the same time cannot be blamed for our shortfalls.

worshipme · November 17, 2007, 5:36am

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

psyah:

Peace worshipyourself

The ability to undertake a function does not mandate that function to be used. It is not ridiculous, it is a fact. The claim is that Allah (SWT) is All Powerful it does not mean that God is going to do the things that you want Him to do. So your statement that 'he won't' is incorrect. When Allah (SWT) decrees a thing it comes to be. God does cure cancer cancers are being cured all the time, not by people by God; the fact is you can't realise this simple phenomenon.

It does not make one wonder why people suffer at all ... one need only read the Qur'an. In it you will see three sets of evidence which are complimentary to wipe out the notion you have just presented.

Suffering in the world is:

a) A result of our own ill informed choices we bring bad upon ourselves but all good is from Allah (SWT).

b) A result of Allah (SWT) testing the people who are both victims and onlookers ... those who pass the test of patience are rewarded those who give thanks to Allah (SWT) for being saved from affliction and help those less fortunate are rewarded.

c) Those of whom have left this world in a state of injustice such as children in accidents or a murder victim then their account in the hereafter will be lighter. They will receive their full justice in the hereafter. This also applies for oppressors and murderers who get away with it in this life.

So you see ... Allah (SWT) cannot be escaped at all but at the same time cannot be blamed for our shortfalls.

When I say that Allah won't is entirely correct. Because Allah/God is supposed to be all-powerful and all-loving, it would follow that if someone was suffering extreme pain, this all-loving God would reach down and heal the pain, because he can and because he would hate to see us in pain.

Because Allah/God does not do that, either means he is not all-powerful, or he is not all-loving.

Which is it?

worshipme · November 17, 2007, 5:57am

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

God gave us a life as a test that we did not ask for, to offer us a heaven we did not ask for, a set of rules we did not ask for, and a Hell we did not ask to go to when we died. This God knows everything, therefore there is no need for Him to test us, as He knows what decisions we will make before we even know ourselves. What is the matter with this God? Does He not trust His omniscience? Or perhaps he enjoys our suffering.

[quote]
Just one question for u Do u believe in life after death?
[/quote]

As far as I know, this life is the only one we have. I'm not going to restrain myself in order to enjoy an afterlife that no one knows exists.

zero_zero_seven · November 17, 2007, 7:23pm

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

If one doesn’t want to understand the truth and develops extra useless conclusions out of the nothing, he/she is sick and unable to b cured mentally

For those people, no human can do something but the hell

Dushwari · November 18, 2007, 6:44am

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

Unfortunately, for whatever that you have no clue about Allah nor about trust on Almighty, is a weak argument on which you based your theory of Allah being not power ful or not caring/loving.

think up of the confusion within your realm of universal truths - especially life cycles of everything in the universe.
dont they all point to presence of a God?

best,

Dushwari

worshipme:

So, Allah is a master of stating the obvious?

You're giving yourself multiple excuses for when Allah does not answer prayer, or when he seems to answer prayer.

If I were to claim to be able to do something, let's say cure a child's cancer, and you asked me to do so, how ridiculous would it sound if I answered:

I may or may not do it,

or I may do it in some other way,

or I may do it fifty years from now

or I may do it if you do it first,

or I may do it if you do something else for me but I won't tell you what I want you to do first

or let the doctor give the kid medicine, then I will heal the cancer.

And then when the child dies from cancer, I simply reply that it was my will. Or if the child lived because the doctors operated and cut the cancer out, I can say that my hand guided the doctors.

Ridiculous, eh? But that is what you are doing when you give Allah multiple escape clauses, so that no matter what happens, you can either say that it was the will of Allah, or that it was man's fault.

Maybe things just happen, and we can simply accept that without having to create gods to explain why.

teggy · November 18, 2007, 6:51am

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

And where have youuuu been the past few days?

best,
teggy

psyah · November 18, 2007, 2:31pm

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

Peace again worshipyourself

Here again is a strawman designed to suit the needs of a person who neglects the entire semantics of the whole argument.

For you it seems like a dichotomy but it is not. God loves us through our pleasure and our pain. As well as being the Most Loving He is also the Just and the Avenger. To you these will sound like contradictory attributes, but to us it puts things into context.

Out of the love of those who obey Him would it not be an injustice to them if He didn't punish the wrongdoers? So you have to understand that too. Also for those who suffer in this world their pain in the hereafter will be reduced, don't you think therefore that the pain in this world is allowed due to the love He has for us in order to reduce the punishment in the hereafter?

You say we didn't ask for those rules ... I say the ethics programmed within each of us abide by certain universal rules that we cannot disregard. Even the thief knows it is a crime to take what is not his to take, even though he will make excuses for going against his ethical programming and thus will steal in private where he won't get caught.

God is beyond those questions you are trying to pose on to Him. The matter with this God is an argument structured with the superiority of the questioner. It is a dud question. Doesn't work. Trusting his omniscience is again a non-starter it is not a matter of God trusting like we trust, it is a matter of God Knowing. By Bestowing upon us the freedom of choice He is most Sublime and sees through the choices we make against our own natures. The pain and torture we go through is not a human getting angry at us out of some ego problem. It is God who cleanses us. We are literally throwing ourselves in the fire by disobeying Him.

Only the acceptance of a plea of mercy can save us from that. Again I stress you must look at all of the Attributes of Allah in unison and then formulate your arguments, by creating you false dichotomies you will inevitably fall into the miscalculated judgements that you are currently arriving at.

Fbi786 · November 21, 2007, 1:09pm

Re: --Placing your trust in Allah

JazakAllah for sharing this beautiful hadith mubaarak. have heard it and read it brfore many times...

Thanks again ...