Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
you guys are disgusting…speedo’s and baby oil?
only chavs buy The Sun newspaper anyway 
Its absolutely sickening that they would publish such photograpghs…the guys at the BBC reckon the pictures were provided by the US military and Bush had nowt to say about it whatsoever…
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
whats interesting is that the nation who claims to be civilized and upheld human rights is justifying such disgusting act.
explains a lot about the humiliating things americans did in abu gharib prisons.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
suroor - excuse me, not all americans were justifying it, the one you quoted here was. Most I were talking to today were outraged that a right to privacy like that was violated so blatantly. Regardless of what people feel about what he did as a tyrant, that act of photographing him that way and publishing it was wrong.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Of course it is wrong. And I have not justified a damn thing.
But let me tell you what is more wrong. After the Gulf War in 1991 the Kurds overran parts of Iraq that included huge quantities of files from Saddams intelligence service. The files contained details of Saddams "Anfal Campaigns". It contained the highly detailed files of the mass extermination of over 100 thousand Kurds. Think about the magnitude of that number for just one minute. The files were evacuated by Middle East Rights Watch. Based on these files there was iron clad evidence of genocide, the worst of all crimes. That is, the slaughter of these people was planned, approved and done with machine-like efficiency.
The Clinton administration was willing to file charges to convene a tribunal against Saddam, but because of some legal problem with a treaty they could not. Rights Watch traveled the world for the next ten years trying to get some country to file charges. No country would do it. Most would not do it because Saddam owed them millions, and if he was deposed, they would not be paid back.
So for ten years this genocidal monster remained free and beyond the reach of any legal body. Now that is a crime. That is an important crime. Not just an embarrassment, a monsterous crime against humanity. Who did Saddam kill? Muslims. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Between the wars with Iran, and the killing of Kurds, Shia and political opponents he has probably killed between 500 thousand and a million Muslims. That deserves your outrage. The fact that this man is even alive today to appear in his undies is an outrage. He should have faced trial a decade ago.
Do I want Saddam embarrassed? No. I want him tried and convicted and killed. Fair and square by the book. I am absolutely certain that the evidence exists to convict him. The world should have tried him. Muslims of the world should have been particularly motivated to try him. But by any rational standard all of us should be far more concerned by the acts of utter horror committed by Saddam on Muslims than on this photo. Focus on what injustice you would rather prevent tomorrow, the slaughter of a million Muslims or the embarrassment of a tyrant.
Frankly your lectures about the rights of this man are fluff compared to the hideous crimes this man has committed. What is really important? Why is there no Muslim outrage? Spend your outrage wisely.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
No, it isn't fluff. This is a right that was violated that could impact more people than just this one man. This is a picture of him in a cell changing.
On this point, like I said, he could be Hitler and guilty of almost 10 million deaths, it doesn't matter. This is a violation of a right to privacy and CONSENT while in custody. Allowing this means that no one in jail has the right to change without being photographed on the whim of a jailer, govt, what have you. Just because it happens to be him does not excuse it. Personal dislike doesn't excuse apathy when someone's rights are violated because it opens the door to subjective reasoning.
When a powerless person (in jail, you have no power) is photographed without clothes with the intent to humiliate or deride, that is a definite red flag because then all inmates are fair game.
It is a violation for men to place cameras in women's bathrooms because there is a right to privacy in bathrooms and there is no consent in taking pictures and publishing them. What makes you think this is better. I think it is worse because a person who is powerless (in jail) has no other recourse and can't defend themselves against this. As I said it is a slippery slope to even think this is allowable.
If this was Joe Schmoe on the street, I would be just as outraged. Just because it was Saddam, doesn't make me less outraged, that would mean my personal opinion would dictate who I would want treated fairly, making me no better than him.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
OG: how did what saddam did actually affected u? and if it did then why doesnt the millions starving to death thanks to the dictators like saddam, in AFRICA, is not having an affect on US army or ur government as well?
minh: i appologize, the nation was wrong choice of word, more like US army and ppl like OG.
having experience with gulf war first hand i can assure u that no one wud want saddam to be hanged or stonned to death than i do. the things that those fcuking arabs did to pakistani community was just horrific and disgusting.
but i wud never wish the same kind of treatment to even my worse enemies because i think ppl can be better than that.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Are you pretending to be blind or r u deliberately trying to change the subject of this thread? Why are you forgetting the fact that massive genocide was committed by Bush and his administration too when they invaded Iraq? Why do you think killing few hundred KURDS is more punishable act than killing millions of Iraqis, including your own soldiers? I think Bush and his administration should be convicted and hang to death.
One more thing Muslims do spend their outrage wisely, prolly they are getting outraged at your post now ;-).
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Todd - why even go there? You derailed the topic just as effectively.
suroor - no harm, no foul :) I agreed with what you said about believing people being better than that, that's why it bothers me so much....
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Why would it be left to propagate? Lets stick to the topic shall we? 
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
If you ask me Saddam is looking to add to his defense arguments. The Geneva Convention on POWs declares prisoners must be protected against "outrages upon personal dignity" and "public curiosity", etc.
Of course, these are truly minor things on the relative scale that Saddam created, but that's not the point.. he's gonna pull a Milosevic in the extreme and try to drag out and screw up his trial as much as possible. This is a minor point in the scope of things, but he could milk it for weeks in court.
I truly wouldn't be surprised if his lawyers released the pics (there are questions of access there tho). But, as Faisal pointed out, we're dealing with Murdoch outlets here so it's likely some lower echelon Army or contractor idiot trying to make a quick buck with what he once had access to.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
I bet the lonely wife of each and every soldier in Iraq is getting off by these pics as we type. The rednecks and farangi women always had a thing for brown sugar.
Besides that the sob is getting what he deserves.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Look, I don't know what the arguement is here.
One of my better friends fathers was held in the Hanoi Hilton in the Vietnam war. His picture was taken, and used in propaganda films. No one objects more to the use of photos than the military, because they would not want OUR men treated in the same way. You are really preaching to the choir.
The military is far more angry about this than you can every imagine. It is a very personal thing to them, and you would probably be suprised how angry they are about it. Whats more, someone who was in a trusted postion betrayed their trust, bringing shame on them? If you knew and understood military men, you would understand the seriousness of this.
The thing that I do not understand is the passivity of Muslims to Saddam. You are asking, "What about all the dictators in Africa, blah blah blah." . Who cares? Given what Saddam did, he should have been removed from power. I do not care a whit about his WMD, never did. On the basis of his Genocide alone, he should have been overthrown. Iraq had no hope and no future with Saddam and Uday and Qusay running the country. Muslims should have been screaming for his head, taking the lead, and begging the US to join them. How long would we have waited for his next misadventure. When will you realize that tyrants like Saddam have controlled Muslim lands for decades and brought nothing but misery and sorrow?
Why did Muslims not act to remove Saddam? Someone please answer me this.
So I have no pity for Saddam, and I refuse to become distracted from the important picture. For the good of Muslims and for the good of the world Saddam must be overthrown and brought to justice. Very Simple. And despite trying everything else, he had to be removed by force.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
To get his oil?
Thank you though, we know how much you care for Muslims.
p.s. When on are you planning on removing the Sauds?
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
OG - Every male in my family is in some armed force, including a brother who is Special Forces, a father I just buried who was army in Vietnam, a great-granfather who lost a limb and fingers in Germany, and many Irish-Catholic Cops or Troopers populating the NE area of our country.
I know about the military and their stance on this and I really believe someone made a quick buck by allowing a photographer to snap him, but that shouldn't be allowable. Neither should a newspaper believe that we would tolerate it just because it is a dictator that people dislike.
I know what you are saying about Saddam but this thread is about that photo and the ways and means and reaction of people to it. It is not about what Saddam did as a dictator. On this particular subject, people were outraged, Americans too, because a man not a dictator, in captivity and with no consent was shown in a state of undress.
None of the rest matters. That's for another thread.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
right. because they dont have oil?, so who gives a **** about millions being killed there. how is it that whats happening in africa is any less horrific than what saddam did?
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
So somebody wanted to make a quick buck. Fine. Thats that. Catch the jerk and punish him.
And by the way, please name a dictator in africa who has started two wars, funded huge weapons programs, and killed hundreds of thousands of his political opponents. Please provide a name immediately.
And, if it was just the oil, why would we 1) Give back Kuwait, and 2) Spend 100bil per year on "liberating" a country that produces 15bil per year in oil?
Nobody can answer why the Muslim world did not topple Saddam eh? Not even a thought?
Trying to complicate the Saddam matter is pointless. He was a DANGEROUS and GENOCIDAL dictator as opposed to the garden variety dictator.
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Anything to do with they are all puppets should keep your mush quiet for a while!
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Why are you even going there? This thread was about the pictures but you keep going toward the actions of the victim in this case which have no bearing on the fact is privacy was invaded.
Let's just agree to disagree here :)
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
Hmmmmm…
(1) JFK & Lyndon Johnson–Iran, Indonesia, Cuban crises, Vietnam, Cambodia
(2) Ronald Reagen–Iran Contra affair, Guetamala, Grenada, Nicargua, Libya, Panama
(3) GW Bush–EE-Rak, War against Terror (??)
All of these fine gentlemen were elected representatives who commanded and directed covert operations around the world, started wars, put the world near to destruction (Cuban crises) and killed millions of people in the name of war against something or the other.
They have excellent company with:
(1) Joseph Stalin
(2) Adolph Hitler
(3) Mussolini
Only reason these guys look bad today is cause they lost the war…
Re: Peverted US release Pictures of Saddam Hussein Exposed in his Pants
minah: What are the personal results of such a violation of privacy? That is, what is it about this that makes it a moral injustice of the degree you seem to grant it? I'm honestly trying to understand. He was shown in his underwear. Hell, people do more than that voluntarily, but then there's also the paparazzi phenomenon. As far as I know there is no UN ruling declaring paparazzi actions a violation of standard human rights. The main reason the Geneva Convention relative to POWs includes a section is to prevent the use of humiliation as an interrogation tactic. This uncontrolled release is not being used in that fashion and the response does not make it any more likely or acceptable in the future (just the opposite, in fact!). So.. where does your outrage come from?
I honestly want to know, because while I can usually agree with "slippery slope" arguments, this is a guy in underwear.. "so what" kinda takes over.