Persians

Re: Persians

Interesting. Not sure about the first two, but what i've noticed is that in the last community, some tend to choose culture over religion rather than fusing it.

Re: Persians

No, its Sociology. And your view that the last community chooses culture over religion is actually a product of biases because youve been around with that community longest and know most about it. Youve seen all odds and ends of that community.

Pull out a geographic map of the Muslim World.

You will find that people have to fuse their understanding of the world with a newcoming thing like religion. You cant just start thinking about it differently from nothing. Yes it can grow on you, but it takes time, and your first understanding of it is through the eyes of your biases/experiences.

For example, in the Hindustani sphere of influence there is more emphasis on rituals, but when it comes to doing actual good between humans, culture takes precedence over religion. Imagine: What is the status of reformed prostitutes or raped women that come from good families? Some are born into prostitution and raped women are not raped due to their own fault. However, even the most constant praying nimazi Desi Muslim would grimace or shy away from marrying such a woman - it is antithetical to his culture. The woman is a used good. Same reason why divorced women have a hard time getting married again, but men have been known up till 1940s (Nawabs) to have multiple wives.

In regards to Turkey there is a difference between North Turkey and South Turkey. In South, people are more Sufistic and more spiritual and have a better understaning of Islamic principles. In North Turkey, especially the part of North Istanbul, people are more affected by the Enlightenment of the Europeans. When you ask a Northern Turk why he is fasting during Ramadhan his answer will be: "Well, it will help clean up my body, etc, etc" mostly materialistic responses.

Persians treat Islam like a Nationality. Not a religion. Anywho Persians have always been fond of wine, pre and post Islam.

On the opposite hand, the Western Muslim understands Islam as "good deeds" like helping old, helping kids read, etc. But Western Islam has less emphasis on spirituality that Indianized Islam does.

Its a philosophic state of mind produced by the geography, culture, and materials available to a group.

Re: Persians

If you're talking about the west, lots of Pakistanis don't seem to be observing religion, not only Pakistanis in the west but Pakistanis in high class. I think it is ignorant to make generalisations. actually as far as I know, Bengalis seem to think that Pakistanis aren't very religious either. So opinions differ from society to society and nationality to nationality etc.

Re: Persians

As far as making generalizations, it is possible and reasonable to do so. The only question is whether or not it is the correct generalization.

Re: Persians

:slight_smile: Maybe next avatar…

Re: Persians

Are you sure they were Persian Jews. I thought they were parsi.

Re: Persians

Well I have to butt in here. Hizbullah has not always done justice upon minorities and Sunnis there. Even some of their "own people" had been treated badly. At times of Khomaini, that is.

Re: Persians

In my opinion, there is no way one can compare the religious observance of Pakistanis in the west compared to Iranians. Hey, I have nothing at all against them; if anything I heavily favour Iran as a country because of its shia majority. But the fact of the matter is iranians in the west have dropped islam and its practices like its some sort of a plague. Pakistanis on the other hand are still known to fast during ramazan, pray 3 or 5 times a day, not go out clubbing etc, etc.

Re: Persians

Yeh no offense but as a Pakistani Pakhtun my experiences have been similar. I used to run with my Paki/Afghan crew back in the day and our Persian friends would do so many unIslamic things (even at that young) age, that modesty prevents me from mentioning them.

On some level Persians and Turks have a greater assimilation level because they appear whiter than many Pakis and definitely Bengalis. Don't get me wrong my Pakistani and Afghani friends could have passed off as amrikis but even at that age were rocking the muslim beards and more worried about getting into college.

Persians expats have lost so much culture that it is really sad. I used to spend more time with my buddy's grandma than he did!

Re: Persians

Mostly Iranians you see in States are those who flew from Iran right after Shah's demise and were mostly very much under European influence.

Re: Persians

I though Butt came from Bhat , Hindu Brahmin name. There are Bhat also in Kashmir. Many Hindus were converted to Islam when it came to Kashmir.

Were all Persians , Zorostrians before they were converted to Islam?

Today most of the Zorostrians are in India.

Re: Persians

Yes most of the Persians were Zoroastrians. Greater Persia including Khorasan, followed Zoroastrianism. After the arrival Islam particularly Shiism, they migrated to India/parts of Pakistan.

As for Kashmir, it is pretty much the abode of the Aryans. Whether they are from Persia or not is highly debatable.

Re: Persians

Yes that is true indeed, but some were from Persia as well.
I'm not really sure If they been Persian Jews. I doubt that very much.

Re: Persians

does anyone know the theory that many shia muslims who were persians moved to the current day sindh many years ago?

Re: Persians

Most persians in the States and Europe are runaways from Shah's time. They are only secular and have no fondness for religion in particular.