Peaceful Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
What are the reasons for growing tendency of militancy in Islamic world? No, I ask it the other way.

What are the reasons of militancy in Islamic world?
Why Islam is always symbolized with a sword among non-Muslims?

May be the way I have raised some issues is not correct. So far usually people do not question ideological Islam being a religion, but patience has its limits.
Islam is truth…no problem, let it be.
But how you can define militancy?
[/QUOTE]

Yahudi,

I think the militancy should be blamed on the militants. I think its the militants that selectively quote Qu'ran authorization to excuse and to give legitimacy to their behavior.

I don't think the true practise of Islam supports the killing of innocent people. I don't believe any religion does.

Put the blame on those that commit acts of violence and authenticate the act of harming an innocent as a religious deed, on the criminals that commit such acts. Because surely they are commiting sin against God's holy #1 command which is you shall not kill.

22

Dear Nadia,

You asked me not be selective. I quoted the holy Quran in completion.
Now you tell me where it is written in Quran that Islam is religion of peace, of non-violence.

Peace means, peace for all mankind, and not for a special class, which accepts the Ayats blindly.
Peace treaties also do not mean peace, as it something political…Hitlor also signed peace treaties…. what, he was a peace loving person?
Offering peace on terms and condition…is not peace, is something like bossdom…America is doing the same today….you must appreciate Bush.

And off course, the Jazya tax, a non-Muslim pays for peace…in English translation it is protection money and in racketeer language it is Hafta.

What are the reasons for militancy in Islam? (Let me make it clear that militancy in Islam is a theme since Prophet days.)

Best rgds

23

Yahudi

You quote the Qur'aan in it's completion? I'd love to see that if that's the last thing I ever see.

Moving on, I would be grateful if you can give a Synopsis of Content on each of the ayats that you decide to quote.

Secondly, the Qur'aan is a guidance for all humanity and does give permission to Muslims to defend themselves and go to War if necessary. Islam offers more peaceful solutions to humanity than any other Faith. Islam also is not a manmade Faith changing with the weather. On the other hand, the Hindu Faith of which you are a subscriber to also confirms that after even cursory evaluation it is easy to realize that complete Ahimsa (non violence) is impossible.

In Mahabharat Arjun says:

Sookshmayoni ni bhootaani tarkagamyaani kaanichit
PakshmaNopi nipaaten yeshaan syaat skandhparyayah:
- Shanti Parva 15.26 .... (1)

Meaning - So many very tiny invisible lifeforms, whose existence
can be ascertained by logic only, fill this world, that by mere
batting of an eye lid we severe their limbs apart.

The shloka from Gita (13.7) wherein Bhagawan Krishna also repeatedly asks Arjun to fight the righteous war (Tasmat yuddhasya Bharat!). Is this peace I wonder?

Furthermore, Marathi Sa(i)nt Tukaram says :

Dayaa tiche naav bhutaanche paalan
aanika nirdaalan kantakaanche (Tukaram Gatha - Abhanga 129)...(4)

Meaning - Compassion is thy name - nurturing all (living) beings
AND the destruction of the wicked.

Once again does this mean peace by destroying the wicked.

Keep reading:

Even Manusmruti says :

Aatatayinaa mayaantam hanyaadevavichaaryan (Manusmruti 8.350) ...(1)

Meaning - A wicked, evil aggressor should be killed without any
hesitation.

In fact in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna promises -

'paritraNaaya saadhunaam vinaashaayacha dushkrutaam
dharma sansthaapanaarthaya sambhavaami yuge yuge (Gita 4.8) ...(7)

Meaning - For the protection of the good, for the destruction of
the wicked, and for the establishment of dharma, I am born age after
age.

How do you destroy the wicked. Peaceful means by any chance?

Hindu scriptures are full of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiva with the
the destruction of wicked demons as their main Avataar karya (reason
to be). It is also more than a coincidence that all Hindu divine
images are always bearing arms. Even Hindu goddesses such as Durga,
Bhavani, Kali carry weapons and are immortalized in the stories of
their destruction of the wicked. Even during the Dasshera festival
Hindus perform puja of their weapons. This tradition is followed even
in the Indian and Nepali armed forces, particularly in the Gorkha
regiments. Thus bearing arms and destroying the wicked are considered
necessary for the preservation of society.

Therefore, before you actually become fatally attracted to another Faith, make sure your backyard is in pristine condition!

24

Islam is a religion that promotes Justice and Peace, in the pursuit of Submission to Allah.

There is seldom peace without justice.

25

Is Hindu religion a threat to peace?
Do Gita or Ramayana inspire Hindus for killings of non-Hindus?
In all 20th century I find only one person, N Godsey, who killed Gandhi and went to gallows with Gita in hand.
It was not Hindu, Christian or any other religion with landed at WTC.

Pls read further the Hindu religion, you will definitely find the concept of total non-violence.
And off course Hindus never chant day and night that Hindu religion is the most peaceful! May be they have no complexes.

I think, first we must decide, what ‘peace’ means….when I read Quran, I fell that ‘revenge’ is also a synonym of ‘peace’.

26

Yahudi

Please answer the questions.

27

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
Is Hindu religion a threat to peace?
Do Gita or Ramayana inspire Hindus for killings of non-Hindus?
In all 20th century I find only one person, N Godsey, who killed Gandhi and went to gallows with Gita in hand.
It was not Hindu, Christian or any other religion with landed at WTC.

Pls read further the Hindu religion, you will definitely find the concept of total non-violence.
And off course Hindus never chant day and night that Hindu religion is the most peaceful! May be they have no complexes.

I think, first we must decide, what ‘peace’ means….when I read Quran, I fell that ‘revenge’ is also a synonym of ‘peace’.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, I get it...You are referring to the 'eye for an eye' and 'tooth for tooth'...Well, there you go...

That's where my religion and your religion agree...Judaism has this too...For all the Jew's fear of death and timidity, then they too are told to fight...Like in Palestine, the *******ized version of Judaism called Zionism, that's what they teach them in school...

Every Israeli at the age of 18 must serve in the army, man or woman...Theirs is a creed not only of revenge, but domination, humiliation and injustice...

Don't mistake the Muslim's concept of fighting with those of the Zionists...When the Muslim fights he makes sure he follows some rules not the barbarism that the IDF shows towards the Palestinians, where children are killed first and then stripped by a robot...That is not the same as Jihad...

The Muslim concept of 'justice through force' comes only in the necessity that requires it...Whether your lives, your earnings or most importantly of all, your faith is threatened, you assume the role of a soldier and carry out your task of protecting your boundaries with your lives if necessary...That's when Jihad becomes obligatory upon all Muslims to heed the call of and not only ward of this threat but to make sure it serves as a punishment to those who would follow suit...

It's also not to be confused with the Amrican government's policy of going where 'justice' demands it...Justice of course being an American synonym for greed...Where you go halfway across the world to depose a dictator who killed insurgents in his own country and you have Pol Pot, right next to you...The man who slaughtered 1.5 million of his own people through his party...

Think not of islamic militancy as a means to revenge, hurt or greed, but more as means to defense against persecution and to make sure no other rises to do injustice again...

The Holy Quran states:

[quote]
**
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for *persecution is worse than slaughter. **And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. *
[/quote]

Remember when Izzetbegovic, the Bosnian president said, 'either give us weapons or let us die in peace'?

He was referring to the fact that a well-supplied, high-tech Serbian army was decimating Muslim population in Bosnia and the USA had imposed an embargo upon the Muslim Bosnians and had sent in a team of UN enforcers with impotent authority to do anything...

Anyways, I believe I have written about this here before...The same stuff...Heck, no probs...:)

28

Interesting article…..

http://www.exile.ru/127/islam.php

But there’s no mistaking the “overall message” of Islam. Any sane person who reads the Koran for the first time is bound to come away amazed by its relentless violence and narrow-mindedness. The Great Book has just a few main themes, each of which are repeated on virtually every page. They are:

(1) God will punish the unbelievers.
(2) A believer does not trust or befriend a non-believer.
(3) Anything less than absolute subservience to God will be rewarded with eternal Fire.
(4) God’s wrath is expressed through men, i.e., believers.
(5) War is holy and necessary, and the fastest way to paradise.

There’s a lot of the same stuff in the Bible, obviously, but the Bible at least has a few famous caveats. The Christian God reserves the right to vengeance for himself: “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.” But the God of Islam expresses himself through his followers, “the Fire whose fuel is men and stones.” There is none of the New Testament emphasis on the universality of sin, and nothing like “He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.” In Islam a believer is asked—required even—to cast stones at those who transgress against God.

(sholay, may be you will get your answer here)

29

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by yahudi: *
**I quoted the holy Quran in completion.*
[/QUOTE]

i'm sorry, i missed the Surah-by-Surah analysis of the "war quotes". You stated you had gone through the entire Quran, or something similar to that. So i would look forward to the complete Surah by Surah analysis. Please copy and paste it here from the original place you quoted it.

Thanks.

30

Bravo, Nadia, I appreciate your trick!

31

Yahudi

But you pasted an article from an Aethiest site. What did you expect them to say? Just in case you missed it, they quote that 'anyone who believes in any God is dangerous and crazy'. Which also means you. Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face. I must commend you for your choice. This makes it very easy for me.

I could post you plenty anti Islamic sites, and pro Islamic sites, anti Hindu sites, pro Hindu sites etc etc. Basically, you name it and you'll most probably have it somewhere on the web.

However, what I want from you is a critical analysis of the whole Qur'aan and then the Vedas. Don't forget it was you who boldly stated that you have read the whole Qur'aan and will post chapter 1-120 in order to explain and determine 'peace'.

Over to you now, my boy.

32

There is no need for a critical analyses of Quran, just read it as it is and if possible not in between the contexts, as the word of God must not be supported by contexts, God is almighty, Quran says, and tell me very frankely what 'peace' means?
(OK, use contexts also, otherwise you are lame.)

Who told you that vedas mans 'peace' or vedas dictate 'peace'?

33

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Yahudi

But you pasted an article from an Aethiest site. What did you expect them to say? Just in case you missed it, they quote that 'anyone who believes in any God is dangerous and crazy'. Which also means you. Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face. I must commend you for your choice. This makes it very easy for me.

I could post you plenty anti Islamic sites, and pro Islamic sites, anti Hindu sites, pro Hindu sites etc etc. Basically, you name it and you'll most probably have it somewhere on the web.

However, what I want from you is a critical analysis of the whole Qur'aan and then the Vedas. Don't forget it was you who boldly stated that you have read the whole Qur'aan and will post chapter 1-120 in order to explain and determine 'peace'.

Over to you now, my boy.
[/QUOTE]

So if I say the same that 'anyone who believes in any God is dangerous and crazy.' then I am right because I do not believe in any God. But it is not the case. I do not think every one who believe in any God to be dangerous or crazy. To me, every one has the right to believe in any God or in any number of gods. Crazy and Dangerous are only two kind of ppl. Firstly, those ppl who believe in any particular God or any particular number of gods and ** want to impose that particular God or number of gods on other ppl.** These ppl consider all others to be 'kaffirs' etc. These are first kind of 'dangerous' and 'crazy' ppl. Secondly, there are ppl like yahudi etc. who critisize only a particular religion. While critisizing they tend to hide weak points of their own religion. For example, he is trying hard to show that Islam is not a peaceful religion. While doing that he has forgotten the violent teachings of his own religion. His bible teaches the jews to kill all others including their innocent children in order to occupy the promised land. Having this kind of teachings in bible, he loses his right to critisize Quran. Similarly, quran also talks of selling 'peace' for 'jazia' to non-muslims, therefore muslims also lose their right to critisize any violent teachings of other books. Every religious person should try to update the teachings of his religion to confirm to present day values and standereds. Let me say that Hinduism is most dynamic in this issue. Their society is fastly transforming in a shape which confirms compliance with present day values and standereds. There is less and less narrow mindedness, older traditions like 'sutti' etc have been removed from society, ancient rigid cast system is openly critisized and is vastly losing its roots, remarrying arrangements of widow etc. all this suggest that Hindu society is not a rigid and fundamentalist society. They are moving in forward direction. Jews and Muslims, on the other hand, parhaps, are the only rigid and fundamentalist societies in the present world. One of them call their state to be 'Jew State' and other call their states to be 'Islamic States'. In a Jew State, non-jews are considered to be second class citizens only because of religious or ethnic grounds. This is not in accordence with present day standerds of basic human rights etc. It is also against the democratic principles. Being a 'fundamentalist state', this Jew state follows the violent teachings of their holy book and they are ready to kill all others including the innocent childeren in order to ensure the occupation on 'prommised land'. So Jew society is not an updated society. They are still fundamentalists and they want to move backword in order to enforce the outdated and obsolete teachings of bible.

Similar is the case with 'Islamic State'. Non-Muslims are second class citizens here. Sectarianism is flourshing here. Even those who consider themself to be muslims can be considered as non-muslims by other majority muslims. In this way such 'non-muslim' muslims can be treated as third class citizens. Such teachings as not to make friend any jew or christien are widespread just because similar teaching is mentioned in their outdated and obsolete holy book. Despite their number, muslims are proved failed to acquire and get any imprtance in the present day world mainly due to their backward thinking style. Due to their rigid thinking style. Due to their love for obsolete 'fundamentalism'. They want to enforce 1500 years old civil system where we shall see 'Laundies' and 'Slaves' here and there. Where women shall have half the rights to that of a man. It would be a pure male society where females will be kept away from financial activities. There would be death penalty for those who decide to be no more a muslim. With this 1500 years old civil system they would also move towards 1500 old physical and scientific world etc. They shall be easily overcome by western powers just as such a fundamentalist society already have been overcome by USA. These things show that Hidu society is moving in forward direction whereas Jew and Muslim Societies are moving in back ward direction.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by yahudi: *
**Bravo, Nadia, I appreciate your trick!
[/QUOTE]
*

Now, now, no need to get testy. What trick? i am merely asking for what you stated earlier:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
Really sorry, Nadia. Selective quotes proove nothing.

*Let me quote Quran, from chapter 1 to chapter 120/ and pls explain what peace means?
[/QUOTE]
*