no , and neither do you so stop acting as if you alone own the ahle bait and Prophet.
Getting something directly from them is not the issue. Using the right sources and people to get their understanding is your problem.
You get knowledge of Ahle Bait and Prophet from people who fought Ahle Bait and hated Ali.
Getting something directly from them is not the issue. Using the right sources and people to get their understanding is your problem. You get knowledge of Ahle Bait and Prophet from people who fought Ahle Bait and hated Ali.
who defines the RIGHT sources , as ur scholars are falliable as much as anyone elses
bottomline YOU HAVE NO DIRECT information EVEN from the people u regard infalliable
Well you proved it to yourself only. Like I said, Imam Ali asked Imam Hasan not to fight khawarij AT THAT TIME. At other times, he fought khawarij himself. Can you deny that?
Your animosity means NOTHING, if in the end you follow Muawiyah and his clan themselves for getting Islam. sirf zubani jama-kharch he.
haha did ali tell u that in person ? or is it in the secret copy of Quran u claim to possess ....
ali fighting khawarij was mandated by sahih hadiths of prophet thats why he did that ...which hadith tells u to fight talibs today ?
Who said only kharijis can be suicide bombers? Don't you remember kamakazis? Point was that suicide bombing was started by kharijis in the history of Islam.
kamikazis are nonmuslim... IRRELEVENT
so why do 12ers follow the example of khawaij they claim to HATE so much ?
who defines the RIGHT sources , as ur scholars are falliable as much as anyone elses
Right sources means that they are not, for example, rebels. Right sources means that the sources stayed with the Prophet most of their time, unlike the Father of the Cats.
haha did ali tell u that in person ? or is it in the secret copy of Quran u claim to possess ....
And who told you to follow the rebels and mufsideen to get Islam?
[quote]
ali fighting khawarij was mandated by sahih hadiths of prophet thats why he did that ...which hadith tells u to fight talibs today ?
[/QUOTE]
That's another stupid argument from you.
Was Ali NOT fighting khawarij mandated by sahih hadiths? Why Ali did it then?
And who told you to follow the rebels and mufsideen to get Islam?
That's another stupid argument from you. Was Ali NOT fighting khawarij mandated by sahih hadiths? Why Ali did it then?
so u dont believe in the sahih hadith about wars of ali , whats the difference between u and the nawasib then ?
so nahjul balagah is not sahih now for 12ers ?
Right sources means that they are not, for example, rebels. Right sources means that the sources stayed with the Prophet most of their time, unlike the Father of the Cats.
show me one ruling of muawiyah or any king which i take as sunnah ?
abu bakr and umar stayed with the prophet most of his life do u follow them ?
what about rest of the sahaba who were muhajireen and ansar ? forget the tulaqa
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
[quote]
ali fighting khawarij was mandated by sahih hadiths of prophet thats why he did that
[/quote]
are you saying that Imam Ali fought khawarij only because Prophet told him so, and that he himself did not want to do it?
Also cite the reference of your claim.
show me one ruling of muawiyah or any king which i take as sunnah ?
People like Bukhari are discredited when they take ahadith from scumbags like Muawiyah. And people like you accept Bukhari as your prime source.
If Bukhari has Muawiyah as his narrator then imagine how many more such scoundrels he must have taken ahadith from.
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
^For Sunni scholars of hadith, hating, or even murdering the Prophet's (saww) family does not necessarily invalidate a narrator from being classified as reliable. For example, they have taken hadiths from characters such as Shimr b Ziljaushan, person who was responsible for cutting Imam Hussain's head off his body and classified them as thiqah. Its very very disturbing but I guess the creator has given us the freewill in this world to follow whatever/whoever we choose. No compulsion in religion after truth is clear from falsehood.
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
^Can you describe which Hadith?
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
[1](Sunni Scholars Took Hadith From Shimr (L.a) (Killer of Imam Hussain A.s) | PDF)
Sunni Scholars Took Hadith From Shimr (L.a) (Killer of Imam Hussain a.s) ↩︎
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
Umar Ibn Saad, Ibn Ziyad (who is also glorified as a man of power!), are also considered thiqa by Sunni scholars of hadith such as Imam Nasai, Asqalani etc.
People like Bukhari are discredited when they take ahadith from scumbags like Muawiyah. And people like you accept Bukhari as your prime source. If Bukhari has Muawiyah as his narrator then imagine how many more such scoundrels he must have taken ahadith from.
firstly ruling is following example e.g muawiyah's alteration on zakat, namaz, hajj ,baytulmal who follows them ? that does not mean simply being a part in the chain of narration.
there are many many proto-shia narraters too in sunni sources ...are they scumbags too now ?
and is every narrater in al-kafi thiqa ?
dont simplify the issue , judgeing narraters for reliability DOES NOT mean passing a judgement on their character.Please get urself familar with rules of ilm-e-rijal.
e.g who is more likely to hear a saying from JFK ? Mcnamara or Nixon ? obviously Mcnamara as he was JFK's companion.
does this mean that I am saying that mcnamara is neccesarily a great guy or pious man ?
Umar Ibn Saad, Ibn Ziyad (who is also glorified as a man of power!), are also considered thiqa by Sunni scholars of hadith such as Imam Nasai, Asqalani etc.
the same Imam Nasai shaheed who wrote "Khasais e Ali" u r trying to paint him as a nasibi , and he died when he refused to praise muaiwyah...
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
^No Das, I am not.
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
^ thats good so plz try to understand why grading narraters was such a tricky subject
Re: Peace Treaty between Hazrat Hasan and Hazrat Muavia Bin ibi Sufiyan
^yes I agree but it is worse when the clear benchmarks presented by the Holy Quran and the Prophet (saww) are deliberately ignored in the methodology.
All the three Ahadith have been narrated from Dhul Joushan, father of Shimr. Being relative of a bad person does not make one bad also. Ubaydullah Bin Abbas was grandson of Imam Ali and he deserted Imam Hassan and joined Muawiyah, does that make his father untrustworthy?
And as for the saying of Bukhari, he merely speculates that Narrations have come through son of Dhul Joushan rather than directly from him.
And most importantly, one has to see the content of narration also, if it is sameas other narrations from different narrators, why should there be any problem.
Sunni Scholars Took Hadith From Shimr (L.a) (Killer of Imam Hussain a.s) ↩︎