Patriotism is a tool to divide humans and use them for political gain.
Do you agree?
Re: Patriotism
what would you have people do? Not be part of any group/nation/country? How is self interest expected to be preserved without being a group?
Re: Patriotism
Patriotism is a tool to divide humans and use them for political gain. Do you agree?
Tool by definition is a thing which one thing use on the other thing.
So tell me who is uses it on us small people ?
Re: Patriotism
Tool by definition is a thing which one thing use on the other thing. So tell me who is uses it on us small people ?
the powers that have more at stake than we do.....
in answer to the original question: yes, I agree.
and in answer to Gupshupper.....of course you need to be a part of a group....but not to the degree that it manipulates you into crossing lines.....
afterall, isn't it patriotism that kept the hotelier from housing that Pakistani family?
Re: Patriotism
Patriotism is a tool to divide humans and use them for political gain. Do you agree?
There is nothing wrong with patriotism in itself however as is the case with anything where passions are involved, yes it can be used to divide, manipulate and control people.
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Patriotism is sooo 20th century.
Re: Patriotism
Patriotism is a tool to divide humans and use them for political gain. Do you agree?
No. I do not agree. For these 2 type of reasons.
1-Its every where, so shows its some what natural. That mean no one intentionally developed this too.
2-If no one developed it, its not really a tool. :)
Second:
1-We love our families, people sell insurance to us. They use some thing natural in us to make money.
2-If thing were bad in society, we pay bhata. which protect our families.
That tells, love for families is not a tool, its an emotion being used against us.
Patriotism like any thing else, eg.. women wish to look pretty... peple wish to show off.. , can me used against people.
Re: Patriotism
Your statement is partially correct but partially wrong as well. Patriotism can be used to manipulate the masses and keep them at each others throats but not everytime. Pakistanis every place and anywhere in the world will gravitate towards anything Pakistani be it food or people. Same goes for any other nationality. No matter how much 'global' the world gets the urge to identify with one of your 'own' will always be there and there is nothing wrong with it IMO. The love for your country can propel a lot of individuals to do extraordinary things which can benefit a lot of people.
Re: Patriotism
I love this topic!!! Ironically I've had conversations with people on similar themes (and not related to Pakistan, but in connection to other geo-political conflicts).
My proposition is that nationalism/patriotism is an arbitrary concept and is actually not supportable in the long term given the times of globalization we live in.
While the concept of a nation-state and the patriotism is elicits is not new in and of itself, because boundaries are constantly shifting in response to modern communication, transportation, wars and most importantly, self-identification - nationalism and its consequent patriotism is an arbitrary concept.
That being said, I think patriotism and nationalism get the play and support they do because it is an inherent feature of human nature to divide and separate amongst ourselves. It is in our fitrat as human beings to we want to assert primacy over "others" - whether it be on the basis of religious, racial, gender or nationalistic differences and patriotism is yet another mode to accomplish that goal.
Oh, and while patriotism and nationalism may not be exact equals, there's enough overlap between the two and enough people treat them interchangeably or to justify nationalism for patriotism to have negative eventual consequences.
Re: Patriotism
Your statement is partially correct but partially wrong as well. Patriotism can be used to manipulate the masses and keep them at each others throats but not everytime. Pakistanis every place and anywhere in the world will gravitate towards anything Pakistani be it food or people. Same goes for any other nationality. No matter how much 'global' the world gets the urge to identify with one of your 'own' will always be there and there is nothing wrong with it IMO. The love for your country can propel a lot of individuals to do extraordinary things which can benefit a lot of people.
Absolutely.
Human beings are naturally tribal and suspicious of anyone different.
People are instinctually closer to those they have the most in common with - where they were born, where they grew up, even the football teams they support (hence people fighting with other clubs), the school they went to and especially any group which is being discriminated against.
Sadly most people can't draw the line and identify the point at which they are being manipulated and don't realise what they are being led towards will only bring them and their wider community harm.
Re: Patriotism
Patriotism is a tool to divide humans and use them for political gain. Do you agree?
You can say the same thing about religion as well, can't you?
When you use the word "tool", literally everything and anything can be used as a tool to divide people - be it locality, ethnicity, languages, values, lifestyles, scientific theories & ideas, resources, political views, economics - so literally anything and everything can be used as a "tool" to group people.
Patriotism is not something you stamp it on your forehead all the time - it is often a feeling which is evoked by a certain stimulus in the circumstances. Patriotism can either be a group expression or an individual's heightened sense of identity and belonging.
As "dividing" people - Quran explicitly says that God has "created you into nations and tribes" which reinforces the fact that humans beings by nature are innately programmed to identify themselves in groups.
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^It almost seems that you're trying to imply that Islam approves of nationalism when the opposite is true..
People often twist that verse to try discourage intermarriage or try and give the impression that staying within 'your own' is better..
The Qur'an actually says **'O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another.'
**It's quite misleading to only quote half a verse like that..
Re: Patriotism
There is nothing wrong with patriotism in itself however as is the case with anything where passions are involved, yes it can be used to divide, manipulate and control people.
I agree with you. Love for country is good. The thing is meaning of patriotism is not same for all. To me, patriotism is working hard with honesty for progress of country. If I were a watchman of a residential complex I would perform my duties in best posible manner. I would ensure safety of residents and their property. For instance, Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, he is known as missileman of India and people's president for his work. He never abused anybody. Working for country gives a feeling of proud. Some find themselves patriot in hating other countries or countrymen while glorifying their own. To me, this does not bring that happiness which I feel when I do something constructive for countrymen even at minutest level. I think this unites. Also when feelings become obsession they can be used as a tool to devide, manipulate and control people as Mr. LondonsFinest said in his comment.
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No. That verse simply just highlights that God Himself had created humans into different groups. I was implying nothing more and nothing less than that as far as the last sentence of my original post goes.
I actually haven't used even half of the verse, merely used a particular phrase from the verse.
How that verse is used to discourage intermarriage is beyond me - it is pretty self explanatory that the verse encourages concepts of coexistence and alliance between different groups.
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What happened to the patriotic descendants of Gandhari?
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Yes or a way to group up people to fight for resources.