Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
Kaleem, Your man Bush is the one who wants to retain all parts of the Patriot Act so STFU and stop playing both sides, it doesn't work.
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
UTD, where did he say that he is not open for a reform on Patriot Act? I have not heard or read him saying that? I am not playing both sides, I was critcizing the patriot act as it is implemented today. There is nothing wrong with that. This just shows that I dont believe in all things republicans/conservative are good.
P.S. MUL
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
"To protect the American people, Congress must promptly renew all provisions of the Patriot Act this year." -Bush, Feburary 15th, 2005.
Hardships = Bush.
p.s. Multiply?
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
All moderate americans, and muslims should support the ACLU to fight the christiano-fascists and their take over of amerika.
Down with christo-facism.
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
UTD will all due respect my friend, you don't know what you are talking about. Bush cannot veto anything with regard to the Patriot Act. That law is in force. Certain important provisions expire in 2005. Another Act of Congress is required to keep them in force. This means that a bill will have to be proposed, hearings, joint committees, and all of these bills would have the protections of fillibusters. Bush has to get an entirely new bill passed for many important provisions to continue.
And frankly the ACLU does not even mention the sunset provisions! How deceptive is that? If they put in their analysis, in big bold print, "These provisions will no longer apply after 2005, unless congress votes to renew them, and the President signs the bill." To read the ACLU analysis, the important provisions of the PA will be with us until doomsday. Very deceptive!
98 Senators voted for this because the vast majority of the provisions were only temporary. They will soon expire, and we will have a debate on the effectiveness and appropraiteness of each section. Not nearly as scary as the propagandists would have you believe...
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
UTD, MUL= Mind ur language 
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
Actually OG Bush has the power to veto the Patriot Act if changes are introduced.
So there are 3 options.
Pass it as it stands as Bush demands.
Make changes to it under threat of a veto from Bush.
Let all sunset provisions expire. Politics won't let this happen so in reality there are only two choices.
If peopel make a stink now about the Patriot Act Bush will be forced to retreat from his veto stance and changes will be successfully made.
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
Yes, now you are getting it. Some other possibilities include Democrats Fillibustering any bill in the Senate, compromising with Bush on key provisions. (Just because Bush is posturing for a complete reauthorization does not mean he really has the support for that position, nor that a compromise might not be reached.), reauthorizing certain sections, or reauthorizing with additional sunset provisions, or authorizing a study of when and how the provisions were used to see if they did significantly reduce risk, and to see if their use was appropriate. In other words, a reauthorization bill will have to go through the congress like any other bill, to win the approval of our elected representatives.
Now answer this. Why did the ACLU explaination NOT include an explaination that a great number of the provisions were temporary? Why would an "impartial" explaination of this bill exclude absolutely critical facts such as this? I find this absolutely appalling and despicable. The failure to include these basic facts is a major blow to thier credibility.
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
OG, I’ve gotten ‘it’ all along.
If ‘noise’ isn’t made now then this bill with the Republican controlled Congress would pass under its current form, the provisions would not be ‘temporary’. The pressure by Bush to do just that is strong and those who oppose it can be labeled as “voting against U.S. security and for terrorism” by team Bush. Why be offended by those who want to get changes made?
And OG, the link I provided simply went over the powers of PA, the ACLU mentions in greater detail all aspects of the Patriot Act including the sunset provisions, see below.
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
All moderate_______ should support the_________to fight the _______-fascists and their take over of the U–ah.
Down with_______-facism.
Fill in the blanks with another group. Do you have an answer for space #2?
Love 'em or hate 'em the ACLU serves a purpose in the wonderful world of pluralistic,
introspective and evolving democracy. Where’s the advocacy group for kuffar?
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
Stereotypical conservative way of attacking something; Try to discredit the source and have people argue over that.
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
What exactly is the comparison between US and Pakistan? Are you criticizing people for voicing their point of view about something? Why should I go to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and protest something in their country which wouldn’t really affect me?
Re: Patriot Act strikes again.
Brought to you by the Republican party without debate.
…
House poised to reauthorize USA Patriot Act
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The House of Representatives, ignoring protests from civil liberties groups and some conservatives, moved on Thursday to renew the USA Patriot Act giving the government unprecedented powers to investigate suspected terrorists.
Sixteen provisions of the 2001 law, hastily enacted in response to the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington, are due to expire at the end of this year unless renewed by Congress. President Bush has repeatedly called on lawmakers to make the entire law permanent.
The House was poised to reauthorize the act with some minor changes designed to increase judicial and political oversight of some of its most controversial provisions. Republicans said the latest explosions in London showed how urgent and important it was to renew the law.
The act allowed expanded surveillance of terror suspects and gave the government the ability to go to a secret court to seize the personal records of suspects from bookstores, libraries, businesses, hospitals and other organizations – the so-called “library clause.”
House Republicans agreed last week that this clause and another allowing so-called roving wiretaps, which permits the government to eavesdrop on suspects as they switch from phone to phone, would be renewed for only 10 years instead of being made permanent.
The Senate judiciary committee was working on its own version of the act on Thursday, which included only four-year renewals of these two clauses.
“Since its enactment, there have been zero, and I repeat zero verified instances of civil liberty abuses,” said Georgia Republican Phil Gingrey, opening debate in the House.
‘MANY ABUSES’
But New York Democrat Louise Slaughter said many provisions of the act had resulted in many abuses, although she gave no examples. She and other Democrats complained that the Republican leadership refused to allow debate on several of their key amendments and seemed determined to ram the law through on a party-line vote.
“This is an abuse of power by the Republican majority which has deliberately and purposely chosen to stifle a full debate,” said Maryland Democrat Steny Hoyer.
A coalition of liberal and conservative civil liberties groups, formed to oppose reauthorization of the law in its current form, this week called on lawmakers not to rush to reauthorize the bill without further debate.
“Certain sections of the law extend far beyond the mission of protecting Americans from terrorism and violate ordinary citizens’ constitutional rights, especially the right to privacy,” said former Republican Rep. Bob Barr.
Leading opposition from the left, the American Civil Liberties Union said the bill gave the FBI extraordinary power to obtain personal records, search individuals’ homes or offices without their knowledge and to use a secret court to obtain personal date on ordinary Americans.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050721/pl_nm/usa_congress_patriot_dc
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The Patriot Act: Alleged Abuses of the Law
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4756403
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