Pashtonistan or Afpak?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

Pakistan has tried unsuccessfully that the world media or the US politicisions not associate Pakistan with the backword and primitive country Afghanistan and opposed the term Afpak(Afghanistan and Pakistan) to be used. After that Pakistan tried to reverse the term and requested to use it backward that is PakAf(Pakistan and Afghanistan).

Isn’t this be easier as suggested in the new york times article to use Pashtunistan instead of “Afghanistan and Pakistan” or Afpak? That way Pakistan name would not be associated with extremism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/weekinreview/06shane.html?scp=1&sq=pashtunistan&st=cse

Here are some excerpts from the article:

…

In his address Tuesday night, the president mentioned Pakistan and the Pakistanis some 25 times, and called Pakistan and Afghanistan collectively “the epicenter of the violent extremism practiced by Al Qaeda.”

But he might have had an easier time explaining what he was really proposing had he set the national boundaries aside and told Americans that the additional soldiers and marines were being sent to another land altogether: Pashtunistan.

…

2

Re: Pashtonistan or Afpak?

Nope. You see that concept is just the same as the concept with Darfur. The media represents the notion of Darfur or Pashtunistan as entirely different entities to that of the nation state itself. I see this as a precursor to the US and EU demanding Darfur go as South Sudan.

The same would apply to Pashtunistan. AfPak is fine in my books. Why because the US will be long gone before any serious damage can be done to Pakistan. Atleast those are my prayers.

3

What would you call the daily suicide bombings are are happening in Pakistan?

My relatives in Lahore have stopped going out because its so dangerous.

4

Re: Pashtonistan or Afpak?

I would call those a direct consequences of Musharaf's actions in Pakistan and our policy vis a vis the actions taken by the US in Afghanistan.

Note a simple fact: Until 2007 we had no attacks in Pakistan.

5

Oh really....was Pakistan this Shangri-la before 2007 ?

Are you saying that not a single attack occured in Pakistan before 2007?

What are you smoking?

Here is a list of Terrorist Attacks in Pakistan before 2007

2001

  • October 28 Attack on a Protestant church in southern Punjab city of Bahawalpur resulted in 16 deaths and 5 injuries. The causalities were all Christian worshipers except one police officer.

2002

  • February 26 At least 11 Shi'a worshipers were killed by indiscriminate firing by a group of masked gunmen at the Shah-i-Najaf Mosque in Rawalpindi.

  • March 17 A grenade attack on a Protestant church in the heavily guarded diplomatic enclave in Islamabad killed five persons, including a US diplomat's wife and daughter, and left more than 40 others injured.

  • May 8 Bus bombing in Karachi kills 11 Frenchmen and 3 Pakistanis near the Sheraton hotel.

  • June 14 A powerful car bomb exploded near the heavily-guarded US Consulate in Karachi, killing 12 people and wounding over 50 others. A portion of the outer wall of the consulate was blown apart.

  • July 13 Nine foreign tourists and three Pakistani nationals were injured in an attack near an archaeological site in the district of Mansehra.

  • August 5 At least six people were killed and four injured in a gun attack on a missionary school for foreign students in mountain resort of Murree. The attack was carried by four gunmen, when they started firing indiscriminately, however no pupils were among those killed, all of whom were Pakistani guards and employees at the school.

  • August 9 Three nurses — and an attacker — were killed while 25 others injured in a terrorist attack on a church in the Taxila Christian Hospital, in Taxila, northern Punjab.

  • October 16 More than eight people were injured in a series of parcel bomb explosions in Pakistan's largest city, Karachi.

  • September 25 Gunmen stormed the offices of a Christian welfare organization in Karachi, tied seven office workers to their chairs before shooting each in the head at close range.

  • November 15 An explosion on a bus in Hyderabad, Sindh killed two people and injured at least nine others.

  • December 5 Three people were killed in an attack at the Macedonian Honorary consulate in the city of Karachi. The dead - all Pakistani - were tied up, gagged and killed before the explosion at the office.

  • December 25 Unidentified assailants threw a grenade at a Presbyterian church in Pakistan's central Punjab province, killing three young girls. At least 12 others were injured in the attack at Daska, near Sialkot.

2003

  • February 28 Two policemen were shot dead outside the United States consulate in Karachi, the same place where 12 people were killed by a car bomb nine months ago.

  • March 10 Two people were injured when a masked terrorist opened indiscriminate fire on a mosque in Gulistan Colony, Faisalabad.

  • June 8 11 Pakistani police trainees were shot dead in what is believed to have been a sectarian attack on Sariab Road, Quetta, as they all belonged to Hazara Shi'a branch of Islam. Another nine were reported wounded.

  • July 4 At least 47 people were killed and 150 injured in an attack on a Shia mosque in the south-western Pakistani city of Quetta.

  • October 3 Six employees of Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO) were killed and several others injured when their official van was fired upon on Hub River Road in Mauripur, Karachi. A Lashkar-e-Jhangvi cadre was officially charged.

  • December 25 Another attempt was carried on the president 11 days later when two suicide bombers tried to assassinate Musharraf, but their car bombs failed to kill the president; 16 others nearby died instead. Musharraf escaped with only a cracked windscreen on his car. Militant Amjad Farooqi was apparently suspected as being the mastermind behind these attempts, and was killed by Pakistani forces in 2004 after an extensive manhunt.

2004

  • February 28 An apparent suicide bomber was killed and three worshipers were injured in an attack on Imambargah in Satellite Town, Rawalpindi.

  • March 2 At least 42 persons were killed and more than 100 wounded when a procession of the Shia Muslims was attacked by rival Sunni(Deobandi) extremists at Liaquat Bazaar in Quetta.

  • May 3 A car bomb in south-western city of Gwadar killed three Chinese engineers and injured 10 other people.

  • May 7 A suicide bomber attacked a crowded Shia mosque in Sindh Madrassatul Islam in Karachi, killing at least 15 worshipers. More than 100 people were also injured, 25 of them critically in the attack. One person was killed in the riots that followed the attack.

  • May 14 Six members of Shia family was shot dead in Mughalpura locality of Lahore.

  • May 26 Two car bombs explode within 20 minutes of each other outside the Pakistan-American Cultural Center and near the US consul general's residence in Karachi, killing two men and injuring more than 27 people, mainly policemen and journalists.

  • May 30 A senior Sunni(Deobandi) religious scholar and head of Islamic religious school Jamia Binoria, Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, was gunned down in his car while leaving his home in Karachi.

  • May 31 A suicide bomber blew up the Imambarghah Ali Raza mosque in Karachi in the middle of evening prayers, killing 16 worshipers and injuring 35. Two people were killed in riots over the mosque attack and Shamzai's assassination.

  • June 10 Gunmen opened fire on a convoy carrying the then corps commander Lt Gen Ahsan Saleem Hyat leaving 11 people dead in Karachi. The corps commander who escaped unhurt later became the vice chief of army staff under General Pervez Musharraf.

  • July 30 Assassination attempt on the Prime Minister-elect Shaukat Aziz, while he was campaigning for by-election in Fateh Jang, Attock District, Punjab. Even though he survived the attempt, nine people were killed due to the suicide bombing.

  • August 2 Chief Minister of Balochistan province Jam Mohammad Yousaf escaped an assassination bid when unidentified persons fired at his convoy killing one of his bodyguards and injuring two others.

  • August 8 At least eight people were killed and over 40 others injured when two bombs exploded in quick succession near the Jamia Binoria Madressah, Karachi.

  • August 31 Three persons were killed and three others injured in a bomb blast at a shop in the Balochi town of Kalat.

  • September 21 Suspected Sipah-e-Sahaba members gunned down at least three members of a Shi'a family in a sectarian attack in Dera Ismail Khan.

  • October 1 A suicide bombing left 25 people dead and dozen injured at a Shia mosque after Friday prayers in the eastern city of Sialkot.

  • October 7 A powerful car bomb left 40 people dead and wounded over 100 during a Sunni(Deobandi) rally to commemorate Maulana Azam Tariq, assassinated leader of Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan, in the central city of Multan. This was most probably the retaliation of Sialkot suicide attacks exactly a week ago.

  • October 10 An explosion by a suicide bomber at a mosque used by Shia Muslims in Lahore killed at least four people and left eight people injured.

  • December 10 At least 10 people were killed and 30 injured in a bomb explosion at a market in city of Quetta. The bomb exploded near an Army truck, as Balochistan Liberation Army claimed responsibility

2005

  • January 8 At least 10 people have been killed in sectarian violence in the northern Pakistani city of Gilgit. The shooting of a Shia Muslim cleric earlier sparked clashes between his supporters and Sunni(Deobandi) Muslims.

  • March 19 At least 35 people were killed and many injured when a Sipah-e-Sahaba terrorist exploded himself in a mixed crowd of Shia and Sunni(Deobandi) devotees at the shrine of Pir Rakhel Shah in remote village of Fatehpur in Jhal Magsi District, Balochistan.

  • May 25 As many as six members of a family were killed in an explosion at village Bandkhel in Makeen Tehsil, South Waziristan.

  • May 27 At least 20 people were slaughtered and 82 wounded due to a suicide bombing at the annual Shia Muslims congregation at the shrine of Bari Imam in Islamabad.

  • May 31 Six bodies were recovered from a fast food outlet set ablaze by an angry mob after an attack on a Shia mosque in Karachi. It was retaliation to the suicide attack on the Shia mosque in central Karachi where five people were killed and about 20 others wounded.

  • September 22 At least six people, including a woman, were killed and 27 injured in two bomb blasts in Lahore. Police said the bombs went off within an interval of one and a half hour.

  • October 7 Eight members of the Ahmadiyya faith were killed inside a mosque as worshipers were performing Salah. The incident occurred in Mandi Bahauddin, Punjab, Pakistan.

  • October 13 Around 12 people including students were killed in the curfew and clashes between the Rangers and civilians in Gilgit. The clashes came after the death of a student in Rangers custody.

  • November 15 A car bomb exploded outside a Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet in Karachi, Pakistan. At least three people were killed and eight others wounded.

  • December 8 At least 12 people were killed and 30 injured in a bomb explosion in the Jandola town of South Waziristan.

  • December 22 At least seven people have been killed in what officials say was a battle between Islamic students and bandits in the Jandola town of South Waziristan.

2006

  • January 25 At least six people were killed and five others hurt after a bus ran over a landmine in Dera Bugti District, Balochistan.

  • February 5 A bomb explosion killed 13 people including three army personnel and injured 18 on a Lahore-bound bus en-route from Quetta in Kolpur, Bolan District, Balochistan. No groups claimed of responsibility for the attack.

  • February 9 Sectarian violence marred the holiest day of the Shiite calendar, with at least 36 people killed and more than 100 wounded in attacks and clashes in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The violence erupted with a suspected suicide attack on Shiites in Hangu, in the northwestern part of the country, as they celebrated Day of Ashura.

  • March 2 A power suicide car bomb attack in the high security zone near the US Consulate, Karachi, killed four people including a US diplomat, a day before President George W. Bush was to reach Pakistan.

  • March 10 At least 26 people, mostly women and children, were killed in Dera Bugti District, Balochistan after their bus hit a landmine. Both tribal rebels and security forces planted land mines in the area.

  • April 11 Over 50 people, including Sunni(Barelvi) scholars, were killed in a bomb explosion at a religious gathering celebrating the birthday of Prophet Muhammad in Nishtar Park, Karachi.

  • June 12 At least five people were killed and 17 wounded in a bomb attack in Quetta hotel.

  • June 15 Unidentified gunmen killed a senior prison official Amanullah Khan Niazi and four others in the southern Pakistani city of Karachi.

  • June 16 Two female teachers and two children were shot dead in Khoga Chiri village in Orakzai Agency.

  • July 14 Allama Hassan Turabi, a Shiite religious scholar and chief of Tehrik-e-Jafaria Pakistan, and his 12-year-old nephew were killed in a suicide attack near his Abbas Town residence. The suicide bomber was later identified as Abdul Karim, a Bangladeshi-speaking, resident of a shantytown in the central city area of Karachi.

  • August 26 Tribal leader Nawab Akbar Bugti was killed in a battle between tribal militants and government forces in Balochistan. At least five soldiers and at least 30 rebels are thought to have died too.

  • August 26-31 Akbar Bugti's killing sparked five days of rioting that left six people dead, dozens wounded and 700 under arrest.

  • September 8 At least six people were killed and 17 injured, four of them seriously, when a powerful bomb blast hit the Rakhni bazaar area of Barkhan District, Balochistan.

  • October 6 17 people were killed in fighting between Sunni and Shia Muslims over a dispute over ownership of the shrine to 18th Century figure Syed Amir Anwar Shah shrine in Pakistan's Orakzai tribal region.

  • October 20 A bomb blast killed at least six people and left 21 injured in a busy shopping district of Peshawar.

  • November 8 A suicide bomber killed 42 Pakistani Army soldiers and injured 20 in the northwestern town of Dargai, apparently in retaliation to the Chenagai airstrike which killed 80 people in the same Bajaur region in the previous month.

6

Re: Pashtonistan or Afpak?

The reference was to the suicide bombing/attacks. That is the subject of discussion my dear sweet chump. That is after all the question you posed to me did you not?

7

There are a lot for the US-West and other regional powers like India, Russia, etc. that are on stake in Central Asia, ME, and South Asia. So any dream that US and other Western powers will quit Afghanistan presenting it to Punjab/Pakistan on a plate is just day-dreaming ... Pakistan foreign debt will swell up to 80 billion dollars by 2015. That combined with dwndling resources and exports and population will have consequences.

It is high time that Pakistan re-asses its policy and re-position its priorities.

8

Re: Pashtonistan or Afpak?

^ You'll be sorely disappointed when boys start coming back home exhausted from a war that was never theirs to begin with. I do hope you stick around, and revisit with your racist stance.

PS: Punjab is just one province of Pakistan. You give it too much credit. Try having a little self-esteem. :)

9

There is no limit to imaginative scenarios when one wants to live in a world of fantasies.

[quote]

PS: Punjab is just one province of Pakistan. You give it too much credit. Try having a little self-esteem. :)
[/quote]

What credit by the way? I have the 5000 years of my history behind, which I wouldn't exchange for some 5 or six decades of controversial role and infamy.

Pakistan Railways expects Rs 6 Billion More Income
10

what group do you associate yourself with?

because your locality is shared are you kicking the others out, in your fantasy?

Model Ayyan Ali confess to shift $1billion from Pakistan
11

No fantasies. I speak from historical evidence which shows No Brute force has EVER been able to conquer Afghanistan. I'm not sure what history books you read, but please feel free to cite a source that states otherwise. Until then, I would much rather depend on the realistic, historically proven "fantasies" while you web together more hogwash to support your racist stance by any means necessary, even if it means at the cost of spreading hatred and animosity.

As for credit. Again, quit being racist. No one cares about your hollow rhetoric that stems from none other than the manifesto of only party that bases itself on ethnic divisions. Grow up.

Bari Umer ki Aurat say Shadi - بڑی عمر کی عورت سے شادی
12

I will tell you a story ...there was this guy Mr Abdullah, a member of Jummaath-i-Islami, a hard-core fundamentalist, and very close to the Pakistani establishment, an ex-civil servant, chairman of NWFP Public Service, and head of Jails during MMA regime in NWFP.

Once a France born Arab representing a reputed Europe-based human rights group came and talked to him about the condtions of prisoners in NWFP jails...Mr Abdullah mistook him for a Westerner and so furiously asked him as how he can teach human rights to Muslims...He tried to inform the human-rights guy as how Muslims treated prisoners during the era of "Khulafai-Rashideen" etc. and how Westerners does not have the moral ground to lecture Muslims and instead should learn from Muslim history ... This Arab guy told him "I am an Arab, I know my history very well, so, please, don't teach me my history...Would you please do something about the miserable conditions of prisoners in NWFP jails".

So vigoratus brother, kindly don't teach me my history ...As Pashtun/Afghan, I am very well-versed in my history and know what is at stake.

hahaha, it is ironin that so many of our Muslim brothers try to convince US that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires but then they themselves forget this point and try to step ahead and install an Islamic Amarat in Kabul.

[quote]

As for credit. Again, quit being racist. No one cares about your hollow rhetoric that stems from none other than the manifesto of only party that bases itself on ethnic divisions. Grow up.
[/quote]

Have some stomach for diversity ...This is not racism...This is genuine expression of natural identity and group sentiments....Obviously, I am not going to subscribe to someone's or group's self-serving notion of partiotism or humanity.

13

And i'm a long lost grandson of David Rockafella :)

The irony of the fact is that you defend a worldwide known crook of a President, yet speak of justice in the same breath. Not sure if that's lack of common sense, or just plain hypocrisy.

As for diversity, unlike you I take pride in Armed Forces of Pakistan which are comprised of youths, season soliders, and senior strategists from all backgrounds, from all four provinces. I don't foam at my mouth at the thought of there being non-punjabis in the Armed Forces. I take them as a matter of pride for my nation, the crown jewels for its public.

As for "installing" an Amaraat. Again, your short-sightedness overwhelms your common sense. It was Pakistan that took Russian invading forces head on alongside Afghans who were wrongfully invaded. It was India which offered support to Russia back then, and now supports US/Nato in occupying Afghanistan. Pakistan again just happens to be a geographical casualty of these greedy warmongers who have no business being in the region, let alone dictating what the policies of a sovereign nation like Pakistan should be. But with many thanks to corrupt, readily available politicians and equally available-to-order Dictators, poor, defense-less Pakistanis are being slaughtered left and right while the opportunists like you tout your propaganda whenever possible.

So please, try a little harder. Amuse us some more.

14

An eye opening information for many. Good!

15

Re: Pashtonistan or Afpak?

The US is puling out. They don't control any of the Pushtun areas. The Helman operation was a complete failure. You hear nothing about it anymore. Karzai their puppet is no longer the man they want incharge. The Warlords have gotten even more powerful and they can't fight their own battles so they are asking Pakistan to do so.

So much for a country that is supposedly winning the hearts and minds of those in Afghanistan.