part of culture or just an illusion!

We have been hearing a lot about Globalization for the past decade or so…people are really stressing on the importance of this concept. I am not here to discuss the pros and cons of globalization, rather would like to concentrate more on its impact on culture.

Since most of us are from Pakistan (including myself) so lets just stick to the Pakistani culture. If we flip a few pages in history, we see that we adopted much of our culture from India…mainly because it was one big land which was divided, and there was bound to be atleast some, if not all, commonality in culture. As per say, the culture that we have is not really ours. Its all adopted. Now coming back to the effects of Globalization. At first we had a limited exposure to the world, because that media (satellite dish) was expensive and not everyone could get hold of it. Then things changed a bit, and now almost every household in Pakistan has access to foreign culture through cable, dish and DVDs etc.

With all this advancements, or I should say active participation in the Globalization we are expanding our culture by adding new concepts to it. Please remember, our culture is/was not OUR at first place…so its like we are extending our already adopted culture. So my concern here is how far can we go like this? and is there a need to clearly define what our culture is? or is it possible for us to live our lives with such an amalgamated culture? and most importantly Does culture plays an important role in determining ones own Identity? If not then i guess we really dont have to worry about these intrusions.

mainly because it was one big land which was divided, and there was bound to be atleast some, if not all, commonality in culture. As per say, the culture that we have is not really ours. Its all adopted. <<

achha..land was divided from a big piece called India and you came from Mars to land on it?. The influence of Indian culture that you call "adopted" is not adopted but was always part of you that you could not shedd off even after adopting Arab culture.

Whats a culture if it is static? Its always evolving and taking up different shapes. It should grow uninhibited.
And since we already are an amalgam then why fear more?

Chann ji and Scratch's comments : well done.

Some say that Pakistanis are in a state of cultural confusion right now. The fact of the matter is, Pakistani culture is an amalgamation of various cultures that muslims bought with them when they became a part of Pakistan. So we were a mixed combo from the beginning. And yet, we've established to a certain extent an identity as Pakistani, whatever that may be. To some its about being a punjabi, to some its bout loving Junoon, to some its about bhangra, to some its about mehndi and choorian, to some its about the beauty of pushto poetry, to some its about Karachi's beaches and night life. I think we've already made a distinct Pakistani culture, but we really dont realize it, becuz we just dont take the time out and appreciate the little things that u find only in Pakistan.

However, one thing i do have to say about this globalization business is that in Pakistan, its not as much globalization as it is about Indianization. Most pple have Zee or Sony on, they're not watching all the news channels or documentaries to see what is going on in the rest of the world, they're watching Urmila's sultry lips and Hrithik Roshan's dance moves.

ChannMahi: ok, i think i was saying the same thing…didnt know if words can play that much of a difference.

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Scratch: In my view a culture does evolve, but the life cycle of a culture is not that short. what i am trying to say is that its not like a culture changes in a decade time…it takes centuries for a culture to adopt new things. But more recently, this change has been catalyzed by Globalization. I think over here we have to make a clear distinction between cultrure and trends. What i feel is that these days, the changes we observe are actually the changes in Trends rather than in culture…any view?

Gudia: your comments

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(j/k) i said that just for the sake of saying

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Dont you think the identity (cultural identity) that we have developed, shouldnt we stick on to it for a while before we actually start changing it?

this is a forced reply

Change is inevitable. You cannot place limitations on culture and as you stated, it's never your own. You have to walk shoulder to shoulder with the moving world, in this case westernization. One example could be language, the English language in southeast asia. Someone fluent in english is considered more often that not, more civilized, and thus this changes the perceptions that people have. It's become a trend, but it's also become a need on a political level. Diplomacy depends on the english language. Therefore there's more emphasis on english medium schools in pakistan rather than regular ol pakistani schools. This in turn makes people more aware of the outside world and more adaptive towards other cultures.

Met an old acquaintance who said..

did u know that if I send a letter to you with your name in the top left where the sender goes and my own name in the recipient section and don’t put postage, it would be ‘returned’ to you and we’d have used the USPS free of charge.

THIS, ladies and gentlemen is the Pakistani Culture

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There is No Spoon

[quote]
Originally posted by ChannMahi:
**>>mainly because it was one big land which was divided, and there was bound to be atleast some, if not all, commonality in culture. As per say, the culture that we have is not really ours. Its all adopted. <<

achha..land was divided from a big piece called India and you came from Mars to land on it?. The influence of Indian culture that you call "adopted" is not adopted but was always part of you that you could not shedd off even after adopting Arab culture.**
[/quote]

people in pak are not all of Indian origin and culture, The indians way of living, cultures, faces and many other things are toooooo diff from Pakistanis. So the culture is not same and pak has a mix culture..

[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
** people in pak are not all of Indian origin and culture, The indians way of living, cultures, faces and many other things are toooooo diff from Pakistanis. So the culture is not same and pak has a mix culture..**
[/quote]

Reza,
Now I am really curious.
So where do you live? inside the bowels of the earth or on some space ship?
So what language do u speak? Gobble-de-gook or something??
What do you look like? A Green, googly eyed hydra with two antennas on your head??
And what are your origins?? I am guessing its Mars...

Dude, I am not sure about the rest of the Pakistanis, but you sure maybe different. So why don't you post your snap just to prove it either way.

Perhaps reza is referring to the more persian-related cultures of balochistan and nwfp and some northern tribes like kalaash.

I would not describe these cultures indian-like. Its just a matter of geography. West Pakistan (post-bangladesh) is more persian influenced and east Pakistan, like punjab and sindh, is more "indian" influenced, simply becuz the way the borders are drawn.

see, when u turn on a pakistani television channel, or listen to music, or eat food or look at clothing, or what have u, u see more of the punjabi side or sindhi side of Pakistan. You dont hear too much of Balochistan or NWFP, so people automatically associate Pakistan with handed-down Indian culture, which is really not the case. We're a mix. South Asia meets Persia meets central asia. Its quite a favorable position actually, which politically and culturally should be taken advantage of.

[quote]
Originally posted by pumpkin:
**We have been hearing a lot about Globalization for the past decade or so...people are really stressing on the importance of this concept. I am not here to discuss the pros and cons of globalization, rather would like to concentrate more on its impact on culture.

Since most of us are from Pakistan (including myself) so lets just stick to the Pakistani culture. If we flip a few pages in history, we see that we adopted much of our culture from India...mainly because it was one big land which was divided, and there was bound to be atleast some, if not all, commonality in culture. As per say, the culture that we have is not really ours. Its all adopted. Now coming back to the effects of Globalization. At first we had a limited exposure to the world, because that media (satellite dish) was expensive and not everyone could get hold of it. Then things changed a bit, and now almost every household in Pakistan has access to foreign culture through cable, dish and DVDs etc.

With all this advancements, or I should say active participation in the Globalization we are expanding our culture by adding new concepts to it. Please remember, our culture is/was not OUR at first place...so its like we are extending our already adopted culture. So my concern here is how far can we go like this? and is there a need to clearly define what our culture is? or is it possible for us to live our lives with such an amalgamated culture? and most importantly Does culture plays an important role in determining ones own Identity? If not then i guess we really dont have to worry about these intrusions.

**
[/quote]

Well, obviously you are a very ignorent person about Pakistan, her people and the culture that resides with in its boundaries....starting with your statement that it was carved up from some big ass country. What country? BVritsh colonial country? ya ok. But then by that logic all of british empire can be considered one big ass country. IS that true? nope.
And secondly, your comical commnet that culture of Pakistan is borrowed. From whjich aspect? THe culture of Pakistan is as old as the land and has been enriched over the long period of time through different peoples, theologies, empires etc...
And it is one of few countrys I know, that would in their geographical area would show off such an exuberant and rich history.

For any society to function, it has to have certain paradigms with which it is to measure its sense of self identity and integrity. Anf by virtue of the fcat that inorde for a society to play a dominant role in its members lives and to mark its existance on the map--it has to interact with others. Hence cultural exchnges take place. If the process is subtle and spontaneous, many a times it results in +ve growth. Some times though, when a people feel bombarded with alien cultural symbolism which aggressivly distorts their sense of integrity, they feel insecure. Thats when preservationists come in. SO no one is against DVD, VCD and what have you. It is the excess of the phenomena and the travesty that follows that can put any society at a psychological disadvantage cuz the mores and values are still there as standard, but the actions of the individuals are not in accord.

And try some more reading and travelling to your future plans w.r.t Pakistan, for more G.K

PyariCgudia,
meri jan, It means that culture of Punjab province and sindh is shared not by all indians but by people of east punjab because of language similarity. SO Indian's northwest shares more of Pakistan culture than the opposite.

[This message has been edited by Sultan Toora (edited April 02, 2002).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Sultan Toora:
** Well, obviously you are a very ignorent person about Pakistan, her people and the culture that resides with in its boundaries....starting with your statement that it was carved up from some big ass country. What country? BVritsh colonial country? ya ok. But then by that logic all of british empire can be considered one big ass country. IS that true? nope.
And secondly, your comical commnet that culture of Pakistan is borrowed. From whjich aspect? THe culture of Pakistan is as old as the land and has been enriched over the long period of time through different peoples, theologies, empires etc...
And it is one of few countrys I know, that would in their geographical area would show off such an exuberant and rich history.
**
[/quote]

well, maybe you are right and i dont have much knowledge about the culture in Pakistan. However, I was talking about time way beyond Bristish Colonialism. When muslims first moved to this area (ofcourse we conquered this area), they came up with their own islamic traditions...thus giving a new color to the existing local culture.

It was during British rule that when muslims lost their strenght, and they felt more insecure...it is then the muslims started accepting the influence of Hinduism in culture. In my opinion this is the point where we actually adopted un-wanted things in our culture.

Lets get back to the main topic, since i never started this thread to discuss origin of our culture...and lets say in Pakistan we have our own culture right from the begining...then the question arises, why are we not so concerned about it being shifted to a new direction?

[quote]
Originally posted by Sultan Toora:
**
For any society to function, it has to have certain paradigms with which it is to measure its sense of self identity and integrity. Anf by virtue of the fcat that inorde for a society to play a dominant role in its members lives and to mark its existance on the map--it has to interact with others. Hence cultural exchnges take place. If the process is subtle and spontaneous, many a times it results in +ve growth. Some times though, when a people feel bombarded with alien cultural symbolism which aggressivly distorts their sense of integrity, they feel insecure. Thats when preservationists come in. SO no one is against DVD, VCD and what have you. It is the excess of the phenomena and the travesty that follows that can put any society at a psychological disadvantage cuz the mores and values are still there as standard, but the actions of the individuals are not in accord.

And try some more reading and travelling to your future plans w.r.t Pakistan, for more G.K
**

[/quote]

well, i am not against any of the advancements...but i am surely concerned about the way these advancements are affecting our culture. As i mentioned before in one of my posts, there is a difference between a culture and a trend...one should be very much clear and distinctive about the two concepts. These advancements surely bring about change in trends, but when it comes to culture...its like you are changing the whole philosophy, the whole thought process behind a nation.

india itself is composite culture since it iss invaded by so many groups. basically
northindian nad pakistan have more common
culture compared to south. pakistani may feel
he is not in india if they visit south.

[quote]
Originally posted by aakhir kyon?:
** Reza,
Now I am really curious.
So where do you live? inside the bowels of the earth or on some space ship?
So what language do u speak? Gobble-de-gook or something??
What do you look like? A Green, googly eyed hydra with two antennas on your head??
And what are your origins?? I am guessing its Mars...

Dude, I am not sure about the rest of the Pakistanis, but you sure maybe different. So why don't you post your snap just to prove it either way.

**
[/quote]

ya put an indian and a paki side by side and watch the difference if u have eyes..

[quote]
Originally posted by Badboodaar Moza:
** ya put an indian and a paki side by side and watch the difference if u have eyes..
**
[/quote]

i thought u only needed a good sense of smell for that!


There is No Spoon

Now obviously you wouldn’t expect a badboodar moza to say so, would you?

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dont go giving people ideas

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