Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
Why hasn't this guy been banned yet? This form should be a place for sensible discussions and not a venting place for petty little hotheads full of hatred for anyone who does not have the same beliefs as he does.
..Your point? People of that time were not petty beings. It is today where we don't keep such names in order to stay in our own boundaries, not to cause a controversy. There were plenty Tashayyu at that time with names like Umar, Uthmaan etc. Just like you won't find a Shia today with such names, you won't be finding a Sunni named Abbas, Hussain, or Mahdi anytime soon.
The article written by brother wellwisher4u is very well researched and very informative. He has given all the relevant/applicable references from all the authentic Shia books. Brother wellwisher4u wasn't rude to anyone neither degrading any person.
The response of Shia brothers is quite pathetic; instead of taking up the challenge and trying refute him or give their own version the best they do is attack him or side track the thread. May be his is too hot to handle!
(Assalama alaykum brother *Bao Bihari *– Great to hear from – will get in touch via email. )
Brother wellwisher4u may Allah (swt) reward you for your efforts
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
The article written by brother wellwisher4u is very well researched and very informative. He has given all the relevant/applicable references from all the authentic Shia books. Brother wellwisher4u wasn't rude to anyone neither degrading any person.
The response of Shia brothers is quite pathetic; instead of taking up the challenge and trying refute him or give their own version the best they do is attack him or side track the thread. May be his is too hot to handle!
Well bro wellwisher seems to have seen the truth and wants to buy it back exclusively for his creed.........oh well.....he can try to eat his cake and have it too as long as the mods allow his "great" efforts to be undone by our humble efforts then it's all good........ we cud start by getting him to define the two terms he has used as the title of his "great" article.......the two terms are "allay sunnat wal jamaat" and "Shia".....just a simple basic definition of these two terms will go a long way in starting this friendly discussion.......inshallah
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
Wrong , there are always usman,ali,hussain , mahdis in sunni narration chains azizum, we dont change names and aqaidh on the basis of taqiyah and that precisly was the point.
PS-Just if that will please a khatmal like you (as you say about your self) do ban me.
Was I talking about ahadith? I am talking about TODAY.
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
^There are more sunnies with name Hussein than there are shia.
In 90's I got a chance to visit al Azhar university which is the greatest school of learning of Sunni Islam......right in the middle of the jamea Azhar is the grand mosque......which is called "masjid e Imam Hussain".........it is a beautiful mosque.......I walked in for the prayers and in the middle of the central dome saw a hadith engraved in very large font......it read........"Said the Prophet of Islam, "TO LOVE HUSSAIN IS TO LOVE ALLAH"..........
any real follower and lover of the Prophet will be a lover of Imam Hussain no doubt.........we r dealing with a different bunch here........a bunch that works under the title of Sunnis but kills both Sunnis and the Shias.........I hope u know whom I am talking abt.......
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
Could this report be CC'ed to Al Qaeda, Lashkar e Jhangvi and other militant Sunni outfits so they could stop attacking the Shia pilgrims on their way to visit the burial sites of the Imams. If these Imams are indeed 'Sunni' then why attack the Shia who want to visit the the 'Sunni' Imams?
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
In 90's I got a chance to visit al Azhar university which is the greatest school of learning of Sunni Islam......right in the middle of the jamea Azhar is the grand mosque......which is called "masjid e Imam Hussain".........it is a beautiful mosque.......I walked in for the prayers and in the middle of the central dome saw a hadith engraved in very large font......it read........"Said the Prophet of Islam, "TO LOVE HUSSAIN IS TO LOVE ALLAH"..........
any real follower and lover of the Prophet will be a lover of Imam Hussain no doubt.........we r dealing with a different bunch here........a bunch that works under the title of Sunnis but kills both Sunnis and the Shias.........I hope u know whom I am talking abt.......
I have visited Al-Husayn in Cairo. BTW Al Azhar was started by shias.
Anyhow, people are free to have any opinion/beleifs that they like, but, using violence to opppress other opinions is what is wrong.
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
^ So true by Shia Ismailis, as I said before, Shia brothers’ response is really pathetic. No one has dared challenge the references and quotations from their own eminent books.
Wellwisher4u seems to have been given a walkover ‘victory.’
The response of Shia brothers is quite pathetic; instead of taking up the challenge and trying refute him or give their own version the best they do is attack him or side track the thread. May be his is too hot to handle!..................
In 90's I got a chance to visit al Azhar university which is the greatest school of learning of Sunni Islam......right in the middle of the jamea Azhar is the grand mosque......which is called "masjid e Imam Hussain".........it is a beautiful mosque.......I walked in for the prayers and in the middle of the central dome saw a hadith engraved in very large font......it read........"Said the Prophet of Islam, "TO LOVE HUSSAIN IS TO LOVE ALLAH"..........
any real follower and lover of the Prophet will be a lover of Imam Hussain no doubt.........we r dealing with a different bunch here........a bunch that works under the title of Sunnis but kills both Sunnis and the Shias.........I hope u know whom I am talking abt.......
Brother Nussairee you shouldn’t be surprised – All Sunnis from whirling dervishes (Sufis) to ‘ardent’ Salafis love all the members of Ahlul Bayt (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) and this includes Imam Hussein (ra). But this Love is not taken to extreme levels as practiced by the Shia.
It would be nice to see if Shia brothers here instead throwing ‘red herrings’ here and there should at least try to take up the challenge try disprove or at least try to deny the references from their own books.
Tactically they seem to be trying (hopelessly) to divert attention of viewers away from noticing that instead of countering the arguments of brother Wellwisher4u they are trying to deflect the thread to other irrelevant issues!
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
Could this report be CC'ed to Al Qaeda, Lashkar e Jhangvi and other militant Sunni outfits so they could stop attacking the Shia pilgrims on their way to visit the burial sites of the Imams. If these Imams are indeed 'Sunni' then why attack the Shia who want to visit the the 'Sunni' Imams?
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
I have visited Al-Husayn in Cairo. BTW Al Azhar was started by shias.
Anyhow, people are free to have any opinion/beleifs that they like, but, using violence to opppress other opinions is what is wrong.
yes Al Azhar was started by Shias but if the Sunni muftis from Egypt were like Wthe Saudi Wahabhis muftis then the chances of the hadith lasting there wud be seriously minimal..........like I said earlier......any follower and the lover of the Prophet will love Imam Hussain......as the Prophet SAWW said, to love them is the benchmark tht separates the believer frm a hypocrite....there is no two opinions abt it.......
and u r quite right there abt the violence........
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
^ So true by Shia Ismailis, as I said before, Shia brothers’ response is really pathetic. No one has dared challenge the references and quotations from their own eminent books.
well this Shia brother has asked brother well-wisher a very basic question but he seems to have disappeared somewhere.........may b gone to look for the mullah who wrote tht article, who knows.........we shall wait and c......but u claim to be an ex-shia....so why don't u answer.............I dont feel like pasting a refutation to his article from answering-ansar or other either.........lets have something original rather than a copy paste
[quote]
Wellwisher4u seems to have been given a walkover ‘victory.’
[/quote]
yay.....lets go blow up a bomb somewhere and kill some Shias to celebrate the grand victory.....NOT!
[quote]
Brother Nussairee you shouldn’t be surprised – All Sunnis from whirling dervishes (Sufis) to ‘ardent’ Salafis love all the members of Ahlul Bayt (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) and this includes Imam Hussein (ra). But this Love is not taken to extreme levels as practiced by the Shia.
[/quote]
who am I to doubt the love of anybody for someone like Imam Hussain?.......if they love the message and the mission of Islam then may Allah SWT increase their taufeeqaat..........btw extreme love is not as bad as extreme hate such as the hate exhibited by Sunni extremists who have demolished the historic sites related to the Ahlul Bayt......and as Pathan Bhai mentiond, killed the followers and lover of the Ahlul Bayt who wish to visit them to pay them their salutations........tramping over other ppl's right is worse than holding a tampered view which can always be set aright as we as humans r always learning.....like Imam Sadiq AS said abt the magicians of the courtyard of Pharoah who one a single day woke up as disbelievers but changed into hard believers.........our God is the best guide who could guide anyone any time....
[quote]
It would be nice to see if Shia brothers here instead throwing ‘red herrings’ here and there should at least try to take up the challenge try disprove or at least try to deny the references from their own books.
Tactically they seem to be trying (hopelessly) to divert attention of viewers away from noticing that instead of countering the arguments of brother Wellwisher4u they are trying to deflect the thread to other irrelevant issues!
[/QUOTE]
well "tactically" Bao Bihari bhai distracted initially off your new favourite writer/researcher well-wisher and started this 'names' issue but when asked what he meant by it, he refused to explain his exact point.......lets c if the electricity in his city allows him then he may come back and clarify what he was saying....
as for references from the shia books......we shall get to the body of his essay once he explains the title.....anyway, we shall give well-wisher a chance too but let him get hold of the mullah sahab and start by defining the two basic terms he has title of "his" article......
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
Well Wisher, please let me compliment for your efforts in writing the iinteresting article. The amazing part is alot of narrations you have quoted and conclusions you have detrived contradicts your own Sahih books. Let me quote the following statment you have made in your article:
You claimed nazubillah the 12th Imam does not exist. However following are a few narrations in your own book:
Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, “There will be **twelve **commanders (Amir).” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, “All of them will be from Quraysh.”
Sahih al-Bukhari (English)
Hadith: 9.329, Kitabul Ahkam.
Sahih al-Bukhari (Arabic)
4:165, Kitabul Ahkam.
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the **twelve **men, all of them from Quraysh.”
Sahih Muslim (Arabic version)
Kitab al-Imaara,
1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia,
v3, p1453, Tradition #6
Sahih Muslim, (English version)
Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraysh and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraysh),
v3, p1010, Tradition #4478
Hadith #3394 (numbering of al-'Alamiyyah)
“There shall be twelve Imams/Caliphs/Amirs for my nation”
Sunni references:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v9, Tradition #329;
Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV, v3, pp 1009-1010, Traditions #4476 → #4483;
Sunan Abi Dawud, v2, p421 (three traditions);
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v4, p501;
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p106;
[http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/"]http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/](http://[(http://[(http://[(http://[(http://[
Following is my question for you: Question # 10: With due respect, the majority of Ahley Sunnah jamat are the followers of either of the 4 imam, such as Imam Hanafi, Imam Shafae, Imam Maliki… All these imams came years after the death of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Infact, Imam Hanafi happens to be the student of Imam Jaffar e Sadiq AS. Whereas, since the event of Ghadeer, we take Hazrat Ali AS as our Imam… and Imam Mehdi AS is our current Imam… We take Imam Jaffar e Sadiq AS as one of oyr imams, whereas you consider his students as your imam and take fiqh from him. Why don’t you follow the teacher and take his student as your imam? What about muslims before Imam Hanafi… who was their Imam? who did they look up onto, if they were the divine Imams, why did it deviate with the noble Imam Jaffar Sadiq AS? Shia believes in 12 Imams, the first imam was with Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H and teachings of none of them contradicts the others
Also, you made a comment nazubillah accusing shias for the Martydom of Imam Hussain. Before we get into any details can you please answer the following question in regards to it:
Question # 11: When Hazrat Ali AS became Khaleefa, Mawiya raged a war against him in Battle of Sifeen. There is a big percent of muslim population who nazubillah regards Mawiya as Ameer ul Momineen. Is it nauzubillah shias who are the supporters of Mawiya and calls him Ameer ul Momineen?
**Question # 12: Hazrat Ali AS was elected mawla at Ghadeer Khum, and yet some people elected their own khaleefa’s
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).” http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir
Shia’s being the followers of what Prophet P.B.U.H instructed at Ghadeer e Khum has been the supporter of Hazrat Ali AS since the day one, certainly shia’s were not the supporters of Mawiya and this is why they never call him their Ameer ul Momineen. Yazid followed his father foot steps and raged a war against Imam Hussain AS. Based on what you have said are you going to imply that shias were with Hazrat Ali AS when Mawiya came agaisnt Imam Ali and later they swapped position eventhough we another sects took who respected his dad as Ameer ul Momineen and raged war against the father of Imam Hussain AS ? I can’t see the logic there?
**]( recorded by Sahih al-Tirmidhi on the authority of ‘Ali, ‘I am the house of wisdom and ‘Ali is its door’…”)]((http://)](. I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So get hold of the Book of Allah and adhere to it." Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah . Then he said, “And my Ahl alBayt (family). I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt”'" … )]()]("http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/))
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
If we say that Imams of the Ahlul Bayt (as) were the mainstream Sunni theologians then I would like to know why then did the governments of their times, both Ummaya and Abbasi, oppress them? Why did the government burnt down the house of Imam Sadiq and forced him out of Madina? Why did Imams spent years under house arrest such as Harun Al Rashid keeping Imam Kazim (as) in prison for many years and his dead body left on the bridge of Baghdad? why was the public stopped from meeting Imams such as in the form of tax forced from Abbasi government for people who wanted to meet Imam Jafar al Sadiq (as) (while money was paid to seek fatwas from Sunni theologians of the time)?
And if they were Sunni then how come Sunnis do not follow their teachings for example in fiqh or narrate hadiths from them. Yes there are hadiths from some Imams in some of saha sitta but they are handful compared to what they knew and taught. Jaafari fiqh is far more detailed than any sunni fiqh and that is not my own opinion but you confirm that from any Sunni jurist. Jaafari fiqh is far more detailed in covering law of inheritance, will, burial rites etc. They taught classes that the founders of Sunni school such as Abu Hanifa attended. They conducted classes attended by thousands including the greatest scientists of the time like Jabir b Hayan.
What about close disciples of Imams who were clearly Shias many of whom wrote books during the lifetime of the Imams discussing the doctrine of wilayat, Imamat? are there not thousands upon thousands of traditions from Imams about the importance of wilayat? Imam Ali Raza (as) in front of the whole city of Neshapur, where Imam stopped on his way to see Mamoon, outlined the concept of Imamat in what is known as the golden hadith, a hadith that was written by more than thousand jurists along at a single time!
If you go back in time to the original matter and beginning of the Shias then it started with Imam Ali as and the best of the companions of the Prophet not give allegiance to Abu Bakr. Did the companions and the tribe of the Prophet saww not believe Imam Ali as to be the rightful successor and Imam after the Prophet saww? throughout history these partisans of Imam Ali as held their adherence to the Imams from the progeny of the Messenger saww and kept company with the Imams of Ahlul Bayt as.
Why were all the 11 Imams martyred and who ordered their execution despite their unparalleled position within the Muslim community? they had to face torture, execution, imprisonment, exile, sanctions, demolition of their homes etc and the same for those who followed them and loved them.
These are some of the questions I would ask.
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
[quote=“Texan_Dude, post:5, topic:247403”]
Well Wisher, please let me compliment for your efforts in writing the iinteresting article. The amazing part is alot of narrations you have quoted and conclusions you have detrived contradicts your own Sahih books. Let me quote the following statment you have made in your article:
You claimed nazubillah the 12th Imam does not exist. However following are a few narrations in your own book:
Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, “There will be **twelve **commanders (Amir).” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, “All of them will be from Quraysh.”
Sahih al-Bukhari (English)
Hadith: 9.329, Kitabul Ahkam.
Sahih al-Bukhari (Arabic)
4:165, Kitabul Ahkam.
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the **twelve **men, all of them from Quraysh.”
Sahih Muslim (Arabic version)
Kitab al-Imaara,
1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia,
v3, p1453, Tradition #6
Sahih Muslim, (English version)
Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraysh and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraysh),
v3, p1010, Tradition #4478
Hadith #3394 (numbering of al-'Alamiyyah)
“There shall be twelve Imams/Caliphs/Amirs for my nation”
Sunni references:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v9, Tradition #329;
Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV, v3, pp 1009-1010, Traditions #4476 → #4483;
Sunan Abi Dawud, v2, p421 (three traditions);
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v4, p501;
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p106;
[http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/"]http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/](http://[
Peace Texan_Dude
I’m not one to argue … however there is no contradiction … The Ahl-us-Sunnah do not necessarily disregard the number of Amirs or Imams being 12 … we just say that the same 12 you claim them to be are not the same we have … At least we can ADD our first three caliphs to a given number of Imams … Also in no hadith does it mention these Imams will be in direct succession … they may all be from the Qur’aysh but not necessarily all one after the other … A contradiction must be very specific in order for it to a true contradiction.]("http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/))
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
[quote=“Texan_Dude, post:5, topic:247403”]
Well Wisher, please let me compliment for your efforts in writing the iinteresting article. The amazing part is alot of narrations you have quoted and conclusions you have detrived contradicts your own Sahih books. Let me quote the following statment you have made in your article:
You claimed nazubillah the 12th Imam does not exist. However following are a few narrations in your own book:
Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, “There will be **twelve **commanders (Amir).” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, “All of them will be from Quraysh.”
Sahih al-Bukhari (English)
Hadith: 9.329, Kitabul Ahkam.
Sahih al-Bukhari (Arabic)
4:165, Kitabul Ahkam.
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the **twelve **men, all of them from Quraysh.”
Sahih Muslim (Arabic version)
Kitab al-Imaara,
1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia,
v3, p1453, Tradition #6
Sahih Muslim, (English version)
Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraysh and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraysh),
v3, p1010, Tradition #4478
Hadith #3394 (numbering of al-'Alamiyyah)
“There shall be twelve Imams/Caliphs/Amirs for my nation”
Sunni references:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v9, Tradition #329;
Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV, v3, pp 1009-1010, Traditions #4476 → #4483;
Sunan Abi Dawud, v2, p421 (three traditions);
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v4, p501;
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p106;
[http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/"]http://www.al-islam.org/twelve/](http://[
Brother Texan-Dude Is that the best you can do? - The word is **12 Khalifs or Amirs **- No way Imams. Look at the Arabic of the Hadith!
Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed
If we say that Imams of the Ahlul Bayt (as) were the mainstream Sunni theologians then I would like to know why then did the governments of their times, both Ummaya and Abbasi, oppress them? Why did the government burnt down the house of Imam Sadiq and forced him out of Madina? Why did Imams spent years under house arrest such as Harun Al Rashid keeping Imam Kazim (as) in prison for many years and his dead body left on the bridge of Baghdad?
Salaam Sister If only you had read the history from all the sources and not select version you would have found that Abu Hanifa (ra), Imam Malik (ra) Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (ra), Imam Shafi (ra) and many many scholars of repute suffered at the hands of Authorities and some paying with unspeakable torture to death.
And if they were Sunni then how come Sunnis do not follow their teachings for example in fiqh or narrate hadiths from them. Yes there are hadiths from some Imams in some of saha sitta but they are handful compared to what they knew and taught. Jaafari fiqh is far more detailed than any sunni fiqh and that is not my own opinion but you confirm that from any Sunni jurist. Jaafari fiqh is far more detailed in covering law of inheritance, will, burial rites etc. They taught classes that the founders of Sunni school such as Abu Hanifa attended. They conducted classes attended by thousands including the greatest scientists of the time like Jabir b Hayan.
What about close disciples of Imams who were clearly Shias many of whom wrote books during the lifetime of the Imams discussing the doctrine of wilayat, Imamat? are there not thousands upon thousands of traditions from Imams about the importance of wilayat?
Imam Jaffar (ra) did not write any books on Fiqh – this is known fact.
He was great Islamic scholar and he taught fiqh to thousands of pupils and the best of his pupils in Fiqh were Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) and Imam Malik (ra) who went on to write books on Fiqh.
So they are the ones who carried on the Islamic knowledge of Imam Jaffar (ra)
Imam Jaffar (ra) was a renowned scientist/mathematician and Jabir b Hayan was the best student in this field.
Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) and Imam Malik (ra) were contemporaries of Imam Jaffar (ra)
Imam Jafar (ra) 83 A.H - 148 H.
Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) 80 — 148 AH
Imam Malik (ra) 93 AH – 179 AH
Imam ShafiI (ra) 148 AH 204
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal 164 AH - 241 AH
Whereas Shia Fiqh books were compiled in the fourth and the fifth century of Hijrah ( well after the disappearance of 12th Shia Imam) are as follows:
Al-Kafi of Kulayni (By Ash-Shaykh Muhammad Bin Yaqoob Al-Kulayni Al-Razi d.329 A.H.)
Man La Yahzarul Faqih of Shaykh Sadooq (By Shaykh Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Ali Bin Al-Husain Bin Babaway Al-Qummi d.381 A.H.)
Al Istibsar of Tusi (By Ash Shaykh Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Al-Hasan At-Tusi d.460 A.H.)
Tahzeebul Ahkam of Tusi (By Ash Shaykh Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Al-Hasan At-Tusi d.460 A.H.)
Wasa’il ush-Shi’aAl-Ḥurr Al-ʿĀmili (1033/1624 - 1104/1693)
Jame’-ul-hadith ash-Shia by Sayed Husain Al-Burujardi in 1368 A.H
If you go back in time to the original matter and beginning of the Shias then it started with Imam Ali as and the best of the companions of the Prophet not give allegiance to Abu Bakr. Did the companions and the tribe of the Prophet saww not believe Imam Ali as to be the rightful successor and Imam after the Prophet saww? throughout history these partisans of Imam Ali as held their adherence to the Imams from the progeny of the Messenger saww and kept company with the Imams of Ahlul Bayt as.
The letter 58 below clearly shows that Imam Ali (ra) was on same belief as his opponent (Hz. Mu’awiyah (ra) not iota of difference!
[QUOTE]
The thing began in this way: We and the Syrians were facing each other while we had common faith in one Allah, in the same Prophet (s) and on the same principles and canons of religion. So far as faith in Allah and the Holy Prophet (s) was concerned we never wanted them (the Syrians) to believe in anything over and above or other than what they were believing in and they did not want us to change our faith. Both of us were united on these principles. The point of contention between us was the question of the murder of Uthman. It had created the split. They wanted to lay the murder at my door while I am actually innocent of it **
[/QUOTE]
.
**
A letter sent by Imam Ali (a) to the people of various provinces, giving them the causes of the Battle of Siffin. ]
Nahjul Balaagha - Letter 58**
The letter below clearly shows that Imam Ali (ra) deemed selection Hz’ Abu Bakr, Hz. Umar and Hz. Uthman (May Allah be pleased with them all) per approval and pleasure of Allah!
*
Verily, those who took the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me. Now those who were present at the election have no right to go back against their oaths of allegiance and those who were not present on the occasion have no right to oppose me. And so far as Shura (limited franchise or selection) was concerned it was supposed to be limited to Muhajirs and Ansars and it was also supposed that whomsoever they selected, became caliph as per approval and pleasure of Allah. If somebody goes against such decision, then he should be persuaded to adopt the course followed by others, and if he refuses to fall in line with others, then war is the only course left open to be adopted against him and as he has refused to follow the course followed by the Muslims, Allah will let him wander in the wilderness of his ignorance and schism. **Nahjul Balaagha - Letter 6*