Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed Imam

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed

@Texan_Dude

Please let me quote you the following verse of Quran:
O you believe, obey Allah and obey His Messenger and those amongst you who are give supreme authority (by Allah). (4:59)
The Quran verse above asks us to follow, Allah SWT, His Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H and those given the supreme authority. This means besides Allah SWT and Prophet there are some personalities that were given supreme authority
Now please let me quote you another verse of Quran:
Therefore wait patiently for the command of your Lord, and obey not from among them a sinner or an ungrateful one [76:23]
The above two verses indicates that Allah SWT wants us to follow the personalities given the supreme authority, furthermore Allah SWT does not want us to obey the sinner or ungrateful one. To me this means one of the qualities of the personality given the supreme authority is they are not sinner or ungrateful one.
If quran asks us not to obey the sinner, does it talk about the any pure personalities… Please read the ayat below where quan talks about the purity of Ahleybait

Salaam brother **Texan_Dude **Thank you for the reply and appreciate your politeness.
The complete verse you quoted is as follows:

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end. 4:59]

If you read it you will note that we are commanded to obey Allah and His Messenger; this obedience is Absolute /unconditional/total.

Then we are commanded to follow those of you who are in authority (Ulul Amr ). This obedience is NOT Absolute /unconditional/total because there is a possibility of Dispute/Disagreement (and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter) we must refer it to Allah and the messenger.

After passing away of the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) we have to refer to the Quran and Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him).

This in no way implies infallible imams by any stretch of imagination!!!

Sunnis follow Allah (swt), the Messenger of Allah (saw), general consensus of the Sahaba (May Allah be pleased with them all) and righteous scholars of the present time.

After Khilafah Rashida May Allah be pleased with them) temporal/political authority was with the Khalifs and the religious authority was with the Righteous Ulema.

*Hudhaifah (raa) has said that the Prophet (saws) said

“The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away. Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away. Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes. Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes. Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood,” then he kept silent.* (Musnad Imam Ahmad (v/273)

Abud-Dardaa (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) say: ‘Whoever treads a path due to which he seeks knowledge, Allaah will make him tread one of the paths towards Paradise. And the angels lower their wings out of contentment for the seeker of knowledge. And verily all those in the heavens and in the earth, even the fish in the depths of the sea ask forgiveness for the scholar. And verily, the virtue of the scholar over the worshipper is like the virtue of the moon on the night of Al-Badr over all of the stars. Indeed, the scholars are the inheritors of the prophets, for the prophets do not leave behind a dinar or a dirham for inheritance, but rather, they leave behind knowledge. So whoever takes hold of it, has acquired a large share (i.e. of inheritance).’”** [Reported by Abu Dawood, At-Tirmidhee and Ibn Hibbaan, and this is the wording found in his collection, in abridged form. Al-Bukhaaree mentioned in his Saheeh Collection in his Book of Knowledge, Chapter: Knowledge precedes Speech and Action, the part from it:]**

After disappearance of 12th Imam whom do 12er Shia turn to for guidance and obedience?

Their selected marjas – No Shia can claim that his marja is infallible – This marja has to refer to the Quran and the Sunnah through the Imams – true?

No Shia has the access to any infallible Imam thus can only refer to marja for Guidance and advice.

So how can you claim that you are following infallible people? You follow marjas and ayatullahs just as much as Sunnis follow Ulemah and Muftis! And they refer to the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw).

You as you are now have no access to any Infallible person - do you agree to that? Only Marjas and Ayatullahs and they fallible humans.

@Texan_Dude

Now let me quote you another verse of Quran:
And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.[33:33]

Agree with you whole heartedly; you know that Sunnis love all the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet (saw) – All of them not just select few – And wives of Prophet (saw) are his Ahlul Bayt (May Allah be pleased with them all).

@Texan_Dude

Now let me quote you another verse of Quran:
Quran [42:23] That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful
In the above verse Quran asks us to love ahleybait.

Agree with you whole heartedly you know that Sunnis love all the near relatives of the Prophet (saw) – Be they are his wives, all daughters and sons, all cousins, all son in laws, all father in laws, all the grandchildren. (May Allah be pleased with them all).