Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
Zoroastrians are another nature worshiping pagan religion, moved in the Indian reason during Islamic conquest, Persians and Arabs have fought for years, Islam, I think brought new question of survival in their mind, I even suspect Persian chose Shi’ism because Arab chose Sunni Islam:)
they generally don’t allow any non-parsi in their building:confused:
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
You are right.. As per some theories, Persians took revenge Islam / Arab, by introducing new practices nearer to their old religion. Even Second Khalifa Hazrat Omar (RA) is believed to be killed by Persian slave Feroz aka Abu lulu.. Some people believe that Baba Shuja’s tomb in Iran’s city Qum (which is revered by Shia Muslims) is the tomb of that Persian slave Feroz.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
Parsis in India
At the beginning of the 10th century a small group of Zoroastrians living around the town of Sanjan in the province of Khorasan, decided that Iran was no longer safe for Zoroastrians and their religion. They decided to emigrate to India.
They traveled to the port of Hormazd on the Persian Gulf and set sail for India. They landed on a small Island called Div on the coast of Gujarat in the year 936 CE. There they lived for about 20 years in great difficulty. They learned the local language and presented their case to Jadi Rana, the king of that region. Jadi Rana in return for some promises of behavior, allowed them to settle in his kingdom. The Zoroastrians founded a settlement, which they called Sanjan, after the town they had left behind in Iran nearly 30 years ago.
They consecrated their first Atash Behram fire within five years of coming to Sanjan. This attracted other Zoroastrians from Iran and also some Zoroastrians who had individually come over the years and settled in various parts of western India. This was the start of the Parsis in India.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
You are right.. As per some theories, Persians took revenge Islam / Arab, by introducing new practices nearer to their old religion. Even Second Khalifa Hazrat Omar (RA) is believed to be killed by Persian slave Feroz aka Abu lulu.. Some people believe that Baba Shuja's tomb in Iran's city Qum (which is revered by Shia Muslims) is the tomb of that Persian slave Feroz.
Iranians whom I met (too few for sample size) used to call themselves Persians than Iranians, they even had enough knowledge about ancient Mesopotamia civilization and even claimed to be descendent of them. Rise of Islam didn't change the ethno-linguistic struggles between the empires of the region. the east-west relation changed marginally, the rivalry of Catholic church versus orthodox church turned into catholic versus Islam, the major impact of rise of Islam. I suppose, had effect mainly on India:)
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
Yes.. Persian language was not affected by the rise of Islam. Even Irani scholars contributed more to Arabic language than Arabs themselves. Rumi in his mathnavi said that:
Speak Persian, though Arabic is sweeter;
Love itself speaks in a hundred other tongues.
Hafiz, in one of his Persian ghazals, says:
Though boasting of one's culture in the presence of the beloved is disrespect,
My tongue is tied, yet my mind is full of Arabic expressions.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
But Arabic had very limited influence in India, Later rise with the sultanate in the delhi, it was persian that was used extensively by the sultanate and the people in the empire, Persian always had better hold of people in India where Arabic was as foreigner as Persian, Urdu borrowed it vocabulary mostly from Persian, even Punjabi has more Persian influence than Arabic:)
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
But Arabic had very limited influence in India, Later rise with the sultanate in the delhi, it was persian that was used extensively by the sultanate and the people in the empire, Persian always had better hold of people in India where Arabic was as foreigner as Persian, Urdu borrowed it vocabulary mostly from Persian, even Punjabi has more Persian influence than Arabic:)
This again proves that Persian claim that Islam / Arabs were interfering in their language and culture is wrong. One of the reason, which is quoted for Parsi migration was Arab influence on their culture and language, but even todate Persian / Irani culture is intact without major influence of Arab culture.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
This again proves that Persian claim that Islam / Arabs were interfering in their language and culture is wrong. One of the reason, which is quoted for Parsi migration was Arab influence on their culture and language, but even todate Persian / Irani culture is intact without major influence of Arab culture.
It was the rise of Islam from Arabic land that was challenge to the Persian Zoroastrians:), other than persecution or fear of it, nothing can make a population migrate from the land where they lived for thousands of year and to the region there god or prophets belong to. The challenge was the new religion of Shia Islam, like in the past Roman Paganism faced the challenge and got decimated by the Christianity. Fear is the one of the most motivating factor, Muslims in India had fear that in democratic society their voice would be curbed even though democratic, socialist, secular republic was being offered, hence fear of Parsis are understable:)
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
Yes there might be fears, because Persian started accepting Islam rapidly and Parsis became minority in a few centuries. Even after the Arab conquest in 7th century, for more than two centuries, Parsis kept on observing the situation silently and there was no active movement against the new conqueror. These two centuries are known to Parsis as 'Do Qarn Sukoot - Two Centuries of Silence'. During these two centuries Khulfa e Rashideen, Banu Ummayyads didn't interfere into Persian (Parsi) people's internal matters (including religion), as long as they paid the Jizya tax.
During Ummayyad period, however, many traditions were popularized by Persians including influence of Hazrat Salman Farsi (RA) on the Prophet and that grandson of the Prophet, Hazrat Hussain (RA) married Sasanian princess, named Shahr-Banu, whose son (Hazrat Zain ul Abideen) became the fourth Shia Imam (and started the Shia branch of Islam). These new traditions encouraged Persian / Zoroastrian to convert in Islam.
During Abbasid period, Persian people who converted to Islam, were given place in royal court, which further encouraged conversion rapidly. By the end of two centuries and when Safavid rule stated in Iran in 10th Century, Parsi first time felt that they had been converted to a minority. This alongwith the rigid policies of Safavids made them migrated to India.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
Islam was easy to follow and monetarily affordable religion as well:), that is one good reason that people chose for simple understanding of god over ritualistic paganism:), rising Shia influence might have resulted in sense of insecurity then. Islam only failed at the bank of Indus, where ritualistic paganism of Hinduism survived the challenge posed by Islam:)
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
I think Islam got customised with the local traditions, instead of being complete failure. There are people who consider local ruler Raja Dahir as a hero compared to Arab conqueror Muhammad Bin Qasim, but they do revere Aab e Zam Zam not less than the water of Indus.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
I even suspect Persian chose Shi'ism because Arab chose Sunni Islam:)
Persians were sunnis for centuries, and only became shia in 15th or 16th century. Many of renowned scholars of sunnis like Abu Hanifa, Imam Bukhari, Ghazali, Muslim, Abu Dawood, Ahmad bin Hanbal, Abdul Qadir Gilani, etc. were Persians.
So it is absolutely wrong to claim that Persians became shias only because Arabs chose Sunni Islam.
In fact, shiaism has its roots among Arabs.
Iraq is majority shia and Arab. Egypt also was shia under Fatimid, until Saladin converted them after conquest of the country. There were also several shia states in other Arab North Africa which don't exist anymore obviously.
Arabs were shias long before Iranians were.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
You are right Khoji that until 15th century (before Safavid Rule) Iran was a Sunni majority country, but Persian culture influenced Arab culture since 7th century from the time of conquest by Hazrat Omar (RA). Wearing a veil by women was a tradition in Persian upper class that was adopted by Arabs. The tradition of Harem was also adopted from Persians.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
^ That's true. The thousands-of-years-old historically rich Persian culture had big influence on new-comers, the Arabs, after the conquest. Since Arabic was the official language at that time therefore Persians used Arabic-sounding names and Arabic language in their works. This is why most people do not realize the Persian contributions to early Muslim culture and religion.
And btw, this is not just Persians. Old cultures of conquered people always influence new cultures of conquerors. Hence Arabs also learned from Roman ways in Syria. Similarly, Aryan conquerors learned a lot from conquered people of Indus Valley.
Well, I think I am moving the discussion in another direction. So I am out.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
Not at all.. We do enjoy such derailing. :)
You are right that sometimes conquerors are conquered. Babar who when conquered India was not very much fond of Indian whether and food, but after few generations Mughal owned Indian culture and food like locals and enriched it with their Persian/ Turk culture.
Likewise, interaction of Muslims with locals in India produced things like Qawwali.
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
In HindI Its Saying that"Hath Kangan Ko Aarsi Kya Parhe Likhe Ko Parsi Kya"
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
In Sindh we have ’ Farsi, Ghodi chadh si’ - Farsi will lead you to riding horse (i.e. becoming an officer)
But what about 'padhe Fasri beche teil 
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
Thats when you do not utilize your high qualification
Re: Parsis - A recognised minority
No its when Farsi lost its influence during British era 
Uske baad to giptt pitt, gitt pitt chal rahi hai.
Have you heard about Iran Shah fire?
No its when Farsi lost its influence during British era Uske baad to giptt pitt, gitt pitt chal rahi hai.
Have you heard about Iran Shah fire?
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No wtz that