I think the man from Srinagar knows at least one thing that the Pandits cannot return to Srinagar. No indian can buy land in Kashmir. Nature has a special route to return everything according to ones action.
Muslims are trying to get one more country from India...These news are their foods . carry own friends. You are thinking that your Taqqiya will win always. Dont expect charity from a frieghtened community. You may argue that Muslims are the preys. From Kerala I can tell that it is not always
I think the man from Srinagar knows at least one thing that the Pandits cannot return to Srinagar. No indian can buy land in Kashmir. Nature has a special route to return everything according to ones action.
The Pandits didn't leave because Kashmiri Muslims made a policy of excluding them from the real estate market. They left because the Indian government exploited sporadic attacks on government officials/bureaucrats in Kashmir (most of them Muslim anyways according to official GoI statistics) to build up mass paranoia among a certain segment of Kashmiri society...with the hindutvawadi governor going on TV and declaring that "every Kashmiri Muslim is a militant" and that Hindus should avail themselves of government sponsored evacuation programs and clear out of the Valley to safety, because "the bullet is the only solution for Kashmir." Nor is there any ban on Pandits returning to Kashmir today...every pro-India party and separatist organization has repeatedly declared that the Pandits should return to Kashmir.
As for Indians not being able to buy land in Kashmir...I can see you're totally grasping at straws at this point. The entire world recognizes the fact that Kashmir is a disputed territory, not an integral part of India...and keeping Indians out is essential for maintaining its integrity pending a final solution. Frankly, if you want to whine and complain about this, go do it in Himachal and the Northeastern states...those "integral parts" of India don't allow the sale of land to non-state residents either. In any case, the situation in Surat is hardly analogous. The brokers there have decided to ban native Gujarati Muslims from buying land...not "foreigners."
Re: Muslims No Longer Allowed to Buy/Rent Property in Indian City
^ What have you been smoking ?
The Pandits left because they had no choice. They could either leave or face death by terrorists' bullets. Ofcourse, this was a larger scale strategy by Pakistan, Pakistan sponsored terrorist groups and some traitors in Kashmir to change the demographics of the valley.
This is getting ridiculously off topic.
The Pandits left because they had no choice. They could either leave or face death by terrorists' bullets.
The Indian government's own statistics for civilian deaths in Kashmir speak for themselves. Over the entire 2 decade history of the Kashmir conflict, a grand total of 209 Pandits have been killed, a little more than half of whom were killed during in 1989-90, when the bulk of the Pandit migration occurred. In contrast, the GoI estimates that over 900 Muslim civilians were killed by militants during the same 2 year period. This was not a "Hindu genocide" by any stretch of the imagination...rather, it was a series of targeted killings carried out against people perceived to be closely associated with the Indian occupation...bureaucrats, government officials, etc.
As for Governor Jagmohan's response...several non-Kashmiri IAS officers in his administration have gone on to criticize him for sparking the Pandit exodus. Going on TV and making declarations that "every Kashmiri Muslim is a militant" and "Kashmir has become a valley of scorpions" and actively encouraging Hindus to flee the state have rightly been seen as an attempt to clear out the only people whose welfare India was concerned with before converting the Valley into army's killing field.
Re: Pandits not allowed in Kashmir [split: Muslims No Longer Allowed.. ]
^ Dont know where you get your information from.
The Kashmiri Pandits obviously dont agree with you -
Re: Pandits not allowed in Kashmir [split: Muslims No Longer Allowed.. ]
^
The very first line of that website claims that 400,000 Pandits were expelled from Kashmir. That is statistically impossible. According to the 1981 census (the last cenus carried out prior to the Pandit migration) there were a grand total of 124,078 Pandits in the entire Kashmir Valley. I’m pretty sure you realize how ludicrous it is to claim that just 8-9 years later, their population had expanded to 400,000. In reality, their entire population couldn’t have exceeded 150,000 in 1989-90.
Considering the fact that your “source” opens with an laughably baseless lie, its quite difficult to take it, or your argument for that matter, seriously. I think its pretty clear who’s getting their information from suspect sources.
Re: Pandits not allowed in Kashmir [split: Muslims No Longer Allowed.. ]
^ The 400k number is from 1989 till now.
Whats laughable is that you expect me to believe a Kashmiri Muslim over Kashmiri Pandits on why & how Kashmiri pandits were forced to migrate from the valley.
Pathetic indeed !!
^ The 400k number is from 1989 till now.
I know it's difficult, but try exercising an iota of common sense. There were just 124,000 of them in 1981. You expect me to believe that their population has more than tripled in less than 30 years? Even with their "high fertility rates" Indian Muslims have barely doubled in population since 1981, but you're willing to believe that the Pandits have more than tripled. Brilliant.
Re: Pandits not allowed in Kashmir [split: Muslims No Longer Allowed.. ]
^ Do you dispute the US Department of State too ?
"There was no progress on the plight of approximately 300 thousand Kashmiri Pandits (Hindu Brahmins) forced to flee the Kashmir Valley in the early 1990s after the outbreak of separatist violence. The Pandits remained in refugee camps in Jammu and New Delhi, some 15 years after the start of the insurgency, and were unable to return to their homes in Jammu and Kashmir because of safety concerns, including the on-going killings of Hindus in the state. "
Re: Pandits not allowed in Kashmir [split: Muslims No Longer Allowed.. ]
^
Their figure is a good 33% lower than your original claim, and seems to be closer to reality than your propaganda website. Still, it wouldn't be the first time the State Dept. has been wrong about things like this. A State Department report once erroneously used lies fed to it by some Hindu organization and claimed that Pandits had comprised 15% of the population of the Kashmir Valley per the 1941 census...when in reality, if anyone had bothered checking the original sources, they'd see that Pandits haven't comprised more than 4-5% of Kashmirs population since the British first started collecting census data more than 100 years ago.
Based on census figures, the population of the Kashmir Valley has grown by a little less than 75% between 1981-2001 (3.135 million vs 5.477 million). If we apply the same 75% growth to the Pandits, we see that their total population will have grown to roughly 217,000 in 2001. If we're super generous and just double the 1981 population, we get 248,000. I'm willing to accept the Indian Government's official figure of 250,000 as it roughly makes sense in terms of census data.
Next time, why even bother pretending to use real figures? Why not just throw objectivity and plausibility to the wind, and use Panun Kashmir's ludicrous 700,000 figure.
I strongly recomend this book and HRW report on IOK.
Kashmire: Paradise Lost: Martin Sugarman: Amazon.ca: Books
The following is an Excerpt from the book
KASHMIR: Paradise Lost by Martin A. Sugarman
“In late Novermber, 1993, I visited Kashmir to document the social and
political turmoil and the massive human rights abuses there. Due to
the government of India’s restrictions on journalists visiting the
area, I applied for tourist visa an found the means and assistance to
work undercover for a month of so before the Indian authorities
learned of my true purpose. Under very threatening conditions, I
managed to escape with all my film and interviews. Unlike Vietnam or
Bosnia, the media has failed in Kashmir for not getting the horrifying
story out. I hope this work will spark interest in the media to
expose this tragic situation to the world”
“Compared to Bosnia, the people in Kashmir have been assigned a
crueler fate. In Bosnia there are designated “safe havens.” areas
kept under the watchful eyes of the United Nations, Western powers and
international media. In Kashmir, there are no safe havens and almost
no witnesses to the systematic killing of the civilian population.”
more excerpts from KASHMIR: Pradise Lost
"Some Kashmiris have fled from the violence in Indian-occuipied
kahsmir to the refugee camps in Azad Kashmir, an area on the Pakistan
border. Their stories attest to the terrors left behind. Twenty-year
old Akhtar Khan, a refugee from a village in the district of Kupwara,
gave this account:
I was a merchant. I had no ties to the militants. My village
came under crackdown, the Indian security forces dragged me off to
interrogated. Tehy tortured me for ten days. Tehy wanted to know
about the militants. I had nothing to tell. Tehy said, “so you want
freedom,” and then they cut my foot off and threw me on the road.
Some villagers were fleeing acress the border. They picked me up and
carried me on their back over the snow-covered mountains to Azad
Kashmir, where I received medical treatment. here in Azad Kashmir, I
have food and a place to live. I received medical treatment here at
no cost. I appreciate the help we are getting here, but I want to go
back home. I still want freedom. They cut one piece of my body.
Tehy can divide my whole body, but I still want freedom.
^ Their figure is a good 33% lower than your original claim, and seems to be closer to reality than your propaganda website. Still, it wouldn't be the first time the State Dept. has been wrong about things like this. A State Department report once erroneously used lies fed to it by some Hindu organization and claimed that Pandits had comprised 15% of the population of the Kashmir Valley per the 1941 census...when in reality, if anyone had bothered checking the original sources, they'd see that Pandits haven't comprised more than 4-5% of Kashmirs population since the British first started collecting census data more than 100 years ago.
Based on census figures, the population of the Kashmir Valley has grown by a little less than 75% between 1981-2001 (3.135 million vs 5.477 million). If we apply the same 75% growth to the Pandits, we see that their total population will have grown to roughly 217,000 in 2001. If we're super generous and just double the 1981 population, we get 248,000. I'm willing to accept the Indian Government's official figure of 250,000 as it roughly makes sense in terms of census data.
Next time, why even bother pretending to use real figures? Why not just throw objectivity and plausibility to the wind, and use Panun Kashmir's ludicrous 700,000 figure.
Try to use some commonsense - The US State Dept talks about 300k in the early 1990s. The kashmiri Pandit website talks about 400k since 1989. Assuming early 1990s is from 1990-1995, its quite possible that another 100k migrated in the last 13 years (from 1995 till date).
And anyhow, this is still a lot higher than the ridiculous figure that you started with.
I think the man from Srinagar knows at least one thing that the Pandits cannot return to Srinagar. No indian can buy land in Kashmir. Nature has a special route to return everything according to ones action.
Bhai jee this is becasue Indian Held Kashmir has special status (by UN resolutions) just like Pakistanis can not buy land in Azad Kashmir (correct me if I am wrong) there is no similarity b/w this and reports that muslims are denied property ownerships in Bombay.
No matter how much you dislike the fact, no matter how hard and loud you beat the drum of "atoot ang", its still considered by UN, International law and every single nation as a disputed territory awaiting resolution.
Try to use some commonsense - The US State Dept talks about 300k in the early 1990s. The kashmiri Pandit website talks about 400k since 1989. Assuming early 1990s is from 1990-1995, its quite possible that another 100k migrated in the last 13 years (from 1995 till date).
And anyhow, this is still a lot higher than the ridiculous figure that you started with.
I know I make sarcasm look very fashionable, but please understand...it only sounds right went you know what you're talking about.
It's pretty clear from the census data that there aren't more than 250,000 or so Pandits total (both inside and outside Kashmir). So all this nonsense about 100,000 more migrating now or then is a moot issue.
Re: Pandits not allowed in Kashmir [split: Muslims No Longer Allowed.. ]
^ Even though your arguements lack content, you think that being sarcastic somehow masks your hollowness and makes you look more intelligent than you are...
But it looks like you agree that the number of Kashmiris migrating was far more than the 125k that you were initially throwing around, since you do not have anything to counter the data I have provided.
So I rest my case.
But it looks like you agree that the number of Kashmiris migrating was far more than the 125k that you were initially throwing around, since you do not have anything to counter the data I have provided.
LOL. How utterly pathetic. You don't even know how to read the posts you're responding to.
I pointed out that total Pandit population per the 1981 census 124,000. I know English can be a super tricky language, but try to follow the argument this time. Now, just so you know, most populations have a tendency to grow over time. I then pointed out that based on population growth rates for the Valley, their total population (that means migrants and non-migrants) probably didn't exceed about 150K in 1989-90 (when the bulk of the migration occurred), and was probably around 220K around the time of the 2001 census. Again, based on official Indian census data, it's virtually impossible for there to be 300-400K Pandits in all of India.
Obviously you have nothing intelligent to contribute to this discussion.
Re: Pandits not allowed in Kashmir [split: Muslims No Longer Allowed.. ]
^ Great ! So the US state department is wrong and so are the Kashmiri Pandits. Its pretty obvious that you (who has a vested interest in understating the numbers) are the only one who can contribute intelligently to this discussion.
you...are the only one who can contribute intelligently to this discussion.
Judging from the content of your responses, apparently I am. Glad to see that you agree.