Its amzaing the outcries generated by some brothers spilling the blood of some Yahoodi(s), yet the suffering of our brothers is considered ok, legal. Inshallah our time will come.
Good articles, Malik.
More on the residents of Akrabeh and Yanun by that dedicated Jewish journalist, Amira Hass:
It’s the pits, 25 October 2002, Ha’aretz
Four frightened farmers emerged from the old Renault that screeched to a halt in the center of the path. “The settlers didn’t let us get to our grove,” they told their fellow villagers of Akrabeh, who were picking olives along the sides of the path. It was Monday afternoon, four days after the majority of the residents of the neighboring village of Yanun deserted their homes, unable to bear the harassment of the settlers any longer.
The car’s passengers turned down the proposal to join two television crews, one foreign and one Israeli, and return to the site where, they said, “an armed settler in an off-road vehicle and another three” people had threatened them with their rifles and taken their car key - returning it only after ordering them to leave.
The reporters continued driving on the path, which winds its way toward Nablus between fields and hills planted with olive and almond trees. In the middle of the path was an off-road vehicle with an Israeli license plate (number 01-478-69), and astride it was a young bearded Israeli wearing a khaki hat and with a rifle slung over his shoulder. In the field next to the path, another young man sat on a tractor (Israeli license plate 57-000-37) that was hitched to a plow. Two young men, both wearing large skullcaps and one of them armed with a rifle, walked alongside this vehicle.
“No photographs,” one of the drivers snapped. “I say no pictures. This is my private land and you will not photograph my house.” He refused to say whether it was he who had blocked the Akrabeh residents from getting to their olive grove. “I don’t answer you. I don’t talk to you," he said. "This field is mine all my life - no, for 2,000, 3,000, 5,000 years. Since Hashem [God] created the world.” He and his armed friend produced wireless radios and began talking into them.
In short order, activists of the Ta’ayush Arab Jewish Partnership group, Rabbis for Human Rights, foreign nationals in the Solidarity movement, and a few of the grove owners in the area arrived. They stopped their convoy of cars opposite the off-road vehicle and its armed driver. The activists and the farmers began to speak about the right of the tillers of the land to harvest their crops. The driver of the off-road vehicle listened and then told the Palestinians: “You are dead people.”
…] The villagers decided to take advantage of the presence of the Ta’ayush group and harvest their crops, even though they thought the terms were humiliating and discriminatory. The closure is causing economic bankruptcy and these days, every liter of oil than can be extracted from the olives is worth its weight in gold. “The only reason the army is letting us work is that you are here,” someone remarked. “If you weren’t here, the army would tell us to call the police and in the end, it does what the settlers want.”
“You were witnesses to a softened version of what we have been going through for the past five years,” Abd al-Latif Bani Jaber, the head of the Yanun village council, said afterward.
…] In the middle of the night on April 17, someone set fire to the building that housed the village’s power generator. The United Nations Development Program financed the installation of a generator to supply electricity to the village and to pump water from the local well into two large tanks that were placed on a cliff at the edge of the village, from which pipes were laid to the houses.
The repair will cost $17,000, but a new generator has not yet arrived. According to one of the residents, it was made clear to the villagers that the new generator would also be torched. The upshot is that since April, the village has had neither electricity nor running water. At the end of July, a group of Israelis toppled the tanks, which in any event were empty.
Since April, the villagers have been going down to the spring and filling jerricans with water, which they store in a concrete reservoir that they built. Nine days ago, two days before the abandonment of the village, they were astounded to discover three Israelis swimming in their drinking water. In the past few weeks, Israelis have harassed fellahin from Akrabeh and from the villages north of Itamar.
…] Umm Nizar said that four Israelis, two of them armed, had surrounded the house a few days before the family left, had fired in the air and demanded that she open the door. “It is a continuing saga. They come over and over,” she said. “Whenever there is noise outside, the boy says `the settlers came.'” He doesn’t say “Jew,” which is the word used for the army. “The army is normal, we are not afraid of them,” she said.
Two brothers, Faiq and Ralub Bani Jaber, both around 70, live in a stone house that was built during the period of Jordanian rule. They and their children, totaling about 25 people, refused to leave. Ralub Bani Jaber summed up: “When I saw my neighbors leaving, I felt death.”
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Jewish settlers cannot be terrorists! They have a mandate from Yahweh to settle on the holy land.
[/QUOTE]
Using God as an excuse to terrorize and steal the Palastenians land is no mandate at all. It is evil.
It seems that now that the U.N. has finally got some balance and the United States Government doesn't like what they see:
The United States wants to go the way of Israel and ignore what is good for the world community and do act any way they feel like acting. Just like a bully in the schoolyard.
I for one, as an American Citizen, am ashamed of this.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
These Settlers should be taken out with any necessary force needed and thrown in jail or deported.
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amke sure they dont get deported to your city or they may make an "outpost" in your back yard :D
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
amke sure they dont get deported to your city or they may make an "outpost" in your back yard :D
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I would hope not, of course if I got my neighbors together and attacked them a few times they might.
For once i am in agreement with the american posters. Will wonders never cease. Next thing you know I will stop flaming
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
I would hope not, of course if I got my neighbors together and attacked them a few times they might.
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UTD I agree, however if you had squatters in your backyard, and the local authorities do nothing to reolve the matter, how long before you take the matters in your own hands.
Its a complex situation and my earlier comment was a pun but the fact is that ppl like us need to be neutral and see the faults at both sides. the blame game only delays the solution.
Suicide bombings..wrong.. ppl may try to justify them by saying oh well what can you expect from ppl who ahve been kicked for half a century+.
miliraty attacks on civilian areas..well same for that. Too many innocent ppl have been affected and kileld in these. Ppl may try to justify that by saying oh theya re trying to stop the terrorists before they strike.
settlers claim they kill palestians because they get attacked, palestinians claim that settlers attack them
ppl say well why are the settlers there in the first place.
what this all boils down to is that most ppl, yourself and a few others here being an exception, get riled up in the blame game. Our media, their leaders keep harping on that.
both sides need to chill out and need significant international pressure to solve this rather than take sides in this bickering. the solution will not be the ideal one for the hardliners on either side, but they will have to make do with a feasible solution and not an ideal one.
What the world needs to make sure is that the feasible solution is a fair and just solution
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
UTD I agree, however if you had squatters in your backyard, and the local authorities do nothing to reolve the matter, how long before you take the matters in your own hands.
Its a complex situation and my earlier comment was a pun but the fact is that ppl like us need to be neutral and see the faults at both sides. the blame game only delays the solution.
Suicide bombings..wrong.. ppl may try to justify them by saying oh well what can you expect from ppl who ahve been kicked for half a century+.
miliraty attacks on civilian areas..well same for that. Too many innocent ppl have been affected and kileld in these. Ppl may try to justify that by saying oh theya re trying to stop the terrorists before they strike.
settlers claim they kill palestians because they get attacked, palestinians claim that settlers attack them
ppl say well why are the settlers there in the first place.
what this all boils down to is that most ppl, yourself and a few others here being an exception, get riled up in the blame game. Our media, their leaders keep harping on that.
both sides need to chill out and need significant international pressure to solve this rather than take sides in this bickering. the solution will not be the ideal one for the hardliners on either side, but they will have to make do with a feasible solution and not an ideal one.
What the world needs to make sure is that the feasible solution is a fair and just solution
[/QUOTE]
Well said.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NotMT: *
Using God as an excuse to terrorize and steal the Palastenians land is no mandate at all. It is evil.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, using God and Religion to justify your terrorism as these settlers terrorists have done , and as the broad section of the settlers generally do to justify their illegal settlement is wrong. Using God and Religion to justify terrorism, is wrong period for people of any faith who do so.
More harm brought upon both sides by the settlers…
The army must stop the olive thieves.
It would be a mistake to regard the settlers’ robberies of Palestinian villagers’ olive harvests as merely another serious crime. This collective theft signifies a change in the current military conflict between Israel and the Palestinians and is a revolution in the history of the settlements in general. For the first time in the current conflict, Israelis are stealing and confiscating Palestinian food. Even if they won’t admit it, it can be seen as laying the groundwork for Transfer, not by the state but by a group of settlers. In Yanun, south of Nablus, most of the residents have already been forced to leave their homes.
In one of the rounds of the conflict in the distant past, during the Arab revolt of 1936, it was the Palestinians who tried hurting the Jewish yishuv by burning fields and crops. Now citizens are doing such things after their country promised Washington and President George W. Bush that it would take into consideration the humanitarian problems of the Palestinian population. Israel understands that is the other side of the war on terror; to fight the terrorists and their controllers, and not at the expense of the innocent population. The settlers are mocking those promises, including the ones made by the prime minister.
With their deeds, the thieves are sending the message that it’s not a war on terror in the territories but a campaign to deepen the poverty and hunger of the Palestinian population. They are burning the olive harvests, damaging the olive trees and preventing farmers from reaching privately owned groves. This is a classic formula for creating more terrorists. And why is it happening this year? Because this year the olive harvest is excellent, compared to last year, when it was very weak and there was no point robbing the slender crop. According to one assessment, by the end of the season in late December, the farmers could earn as much as NIS 200 million. That’s what the harvest robbers want to prevent. Those knowledgeable about Palestinian agriculture say that some 600,000 Palestinians earn their livelihood in one way or another from live harvests.
To prepare the groundwork for their plot, the robbers enlisted the former chief rabbi Mordechai Eliahu, who explained that the fruit from the trees planted by Gentiles on land inherited by the people of Israel, does not belong to the Gentiles. At most, they can get a tithe from it. This is rape of the Jewish religion, the handiwork of idol worshippers, and a disgrace for the people of Israel, whether from the right or left, secular or religious. A few days ago, Denmark, which holds the rotating presidency of the European Union, managed to postpone for three years the decision whether the EU should boycott goods produced by Israelis in the settlements. If the olive robberies are not ceased immediately, and the victims of the theft are not compensated, Israel will have no moral right to ask the EU to prevent boycotts of settlement products.
The harvest robbers show that Israelis are also contributing to the destruction of the rule of law in the territories. If they were blocked immediately, things would appear differently. But the depth of the change these deeds are creating is apparent in the weakness the IDF is displaying. Many officers are ashamed of it. But statements by the chief of staff during internal discussions that he condemns the phenomenon are meaningless, if the army does not take determined action to prevent it. The settlers’ private army - and it’s not only the hilltop gangs - has taken the law into its own hands, and is spitting in the face of the army.
If the harvest robberies are not immediately stopped there will be, for the first time, justification for international military involvement in the territories - and not merely inspectors, but a full-fledged military intervention. We’ll all lose. We can already learn from the harvest robberies about the future developments we’re promised, if the settlers and their supporters are allowed to lead Israeli policy. The change the harvest robbers have wrought proves how important it is that Washington sticks to its demand to freeze the settlements.
I think Hashem had the Israelis wander around the region like nomads for quite some time before they got to their promised land. At this time they did not have a country with borders. The settlements are clearly the on the ground reality of the intent of some powerful elements in Israel, America and surely elsewhere. The US State Dept. clause of recognizing Jerusalem as a Jewish capital is also another sign. Mr. Donald Rumsfeld's quip that borders siezed in '67 are not necessarily questionable point to his militaristic point of view of what is permissable. He has not repeated this type of comment publicly, for some reason. The abandonment of villages by Palestinians is just another piece of the obvious puzzle. As of Oct. 30th, the Israeli Government is top loaded with the right wing of their political spectrum. The US Government stands on the brink of the same. None of these occurances bode well in my mind.
There must be an international military involvement now to stop this ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from their lands. Sharon is now trying to build an extremist government of ethnic cleansers, settler lovers and war crimnals. The international community must intervene before Israel adopts the Serbian-style of mass ethnic cleansing and terrorism.
I think there are many dangers facing the palestinians in the coming days, Sharon is trying to gain the support of Ultra Orthodox Jews in the knesset, which can only mean further destruction of the West Bank to make way for new settlements. The cycle of violence will no doubt become worse with the IDF continuing its destruction of properties and indiscriminate killings of civilans. The International Community MUST act and pile on the pressure on the Isreali Government, the UN must be allowed to implement UN resolutions on the dispute just as they are trying to with Iraq.
It’s roadblocks and checkpoints wherever one looks. As an example, how frustrated would we Canadians (and Americans) get if - for an illegal reason - we were forced to drive or walk an hour out of our way to reach our destination ? Better yet, what if our mothers and sisters were forced to give birth at home, in the absence of medical personnel, due to the unreliability and difficulties of being permitted across a checkpoint across one’s own land? How patient would you be if your sister/daughter/wife was prevented from accessing a hospital to give birth to her baby? …But then i suppose the Palestinians deserve it as Israel can do no wrong according to some.
A land of roadblocks and barriers, Danny Rubinstein, Ha’aretz, 3 November 2002
…] The West Bank is a land of roadblocks. There more than 300 of them, some 120 manned. The roads are crowded with signposts to the settlements, and Palestinians are banned from most roads. “The directives of the military command is to freeze all traffic on West Bank roads, including taxis, buses, private vehicles and others according to security needs,” wrote outgoing defense minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer on Oct. 3 in answer to a question by Meretz MK Zahava Gal-On. To prevent Palestinian traffic, most West Bank towns and villages have been surrounded by hundreds of roadblocks and are under permanent siege and closure.
Years ago, Kach activists conceived a plan to set up a Jewish state in the West Bank, “the state of Judea,” in the event that the Israeli government decided to give up those territories. “The state of Judea” has not been established yet, but if you add the barrier policy to the illegal outposts and the settlers’ persecution of Palestinian olive pickers, one may conclude with certainty that there is indeed a state in process in the territories. It is not, however, a Palestinian state.
…Bilal Salah al-Din, lives in the nearby village of Hizma, which borders the northern Jerusalem neighborhood of Pisgat Zeev and is surrounded by barriers. Every day al-Din manages somehow to reach the school. A few days ago, his pregnant wife felt ill, and they wanted to go to Al-Muqassed Hospital on the Mount of Olives. But neither he nor his wife have a permit to enter Jerusalem. According to Israeli orders, they should have applied to the military authorities - a long, complicated procedure that has a good chance of being rejected.
Al-Din says many women in Hizma have become accustomed to giving birth at home, while others have traveled far distances through the mountains to the small hospital in Jericho. He and his wife preferred bypassing the barriers at Shuafat on foot to reach the Mount of Olives. As far as Israeli law is concerned, he is an illegal alien and can easily be arrested and sent to prison.
Movement restrictions in the West Bank and around Jerusalem are not only harsh decrees with which the population cannot live, but also automatically turn most of the Palestinian public into law breakers. Almost every Palestinian who leaves home for work, school, shopping, medical treatment or family visits must bypass a barrier and, as a result, violate Israeli security regulations.
A government that demands permits from people to get to a hospital, in his opinion, is a racist apartheid rule, because only the Palestinians, not the settlers, require permits. He does not mind breaking Israeli law and even risking his safety, if only to maintain his dignity. He also preaches to his friends: “Never go to the Israeli authorities for a movement permit.” If all Palestinians take his cue, he thinks it will be possible to break the road barrier policy.
The West Bank is a land of roadblocks. There more than 300 of them, some 120 manned. The roads are crowded with signposts to the settlements, and Palestinians are banned from most roads.
Thats why illegal Jewish settlements are road blocks to peace in more than one way. They arwe instruments of war and occupation, and must be removed, or else they are legitimate targets for the Palestinain resistance fighters.
True, Malik :k:
Roadblocks have been proven to make suicide bombers less likly to get into Israel (The IDF has stopped dozens of suicide bombers from reching their location, Israeli civilians). Until the Palestinain people decide that suicide bombers will only backfire on them Israel must keep these roadblocks in place, they have no choice.
The places where suicide bombers stay and where they train in are legitimate targets as well.
Anyone who believes suicide bombing will cause Israel to "run with their tails between their legs" is dead wrong.
But I suppose some think that Palestinains can do no wrong.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
But I suppose some think that Palestinains can do no wrong.
[/QUOTE]
So you think illegal Jewish settlers can do no wrong?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
So you think illegal Jewish settlers can do no wrong?
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I did not say that, in fact I have stated the very opposite in previous posts. Until Palestinains reject the use of suicide bombers the hardships of Palestinains will only grow.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
I did not say that, in fact I have stated the very opposite in previous posts.
[/QUOTE]
Not really. Don't worry I know exactly where you come from, and I'm not fooled by any of your fake condemnations. Everything you say to even slightly criticise Zioinst crimes comes with conditions. Now tell us what gives Jewish settlers any right to illegally settle in occupied Palestinian lands, and carry out the acts of war they do?