Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

lostsoul · May 17, 2005, 6:16pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

In 90s, i took Bible from British library in Karachi to my home.

My muslim friend objected to keeping the bible in my college bag. He said u r disrespecting it. (because the bag was on my back)

Ohioguy · May 17, 2005, 6:16pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

Treated like trash? Christ, they were SHOT! If that does not DEFILE, your priorities are really screwed up!

lostsoul · May 17, 2005, 6:18pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

I agree with u. Pakistan has a bad trecord. Not just christians but shias and Ahmedis.

But bible is not trashed, OK?

Ohioguy · May 17, 2005, 6:20pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

So you respect the book and kill the people. Oh Lord.

lostsoul · May 17, 2005, 6:21pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

Thats so true…

and this is disgusting…

But it belies ur arguments that Bible is trashed by muslims every day.

Ohioguy · May 17, 2005, 6:25pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

6 Held In Pakistan Church Attack

LAHORE, Pakistan, Dec. 26, 2002

Relatives mourn over the bodies of three girls killed in the attack. (Photo: AP)

“Afzar told people ‘you should attack Christians and not even have food until you have seen their dead bodies,’”
Nazir Yaqub, a Pakistani police officer

Armed policemen stand guard in Chianwala. (Photo: AP)

(AP) Police detained six people on Thursday following a grenade attack on a church that killed three girls and wounded 13 people on Christmas Day. Among those held was an Islamic cleric who allegedly called for Christians to be killed.

Thousands turned out for a memorial service for the girls, who were 6, 10 and 15 years old. Mourners carried their coffins to a local cemetery for burial.

On Wednesday, two assailants covered in burqas, the all-encompassing garment worn by women in some Islamic countries, tossed a grenade into the Protestant congregation at Chianwala, about 40 miles northwest of Lahore.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/25/world/main534287.shtml

Christians killed by grenade attack on the Holiest Day on the Christian calender. Do you suppose some bibles were charred by the grenades or the burning flesh of the little girls?

Lajawab · May 17, 2005, 6:27pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

minah_pa:

Not all Christians indulge, neither do all Muslims abstain from all of these. You should see the lottery lines at the 7-11. How many have bank accounts? How many Muslims do I see at Atlantic City in the Casinos? Pork, not many do that - I agree. But, c’mon.

As far as not obeying, I am sure that you noticed in the link that you kindly provided and in the PBS link, that the Muslims were only welcome in Christian countries at the end of the seige. No Muslim countries spoke up for their people. I also want to point out that Christians gave the Muslims sanctuary in a church and underwent seige and destruction to uphold sanctuary for them. Christians walked unarmed with food through the battle lines under the guns of the Israeli army to feed the people caught in the church. And it was Christians who straightened the record out when they heard false reports. And this is just one instance.

I’m not going into all the Christian CARE organizations or shelters or amnesty projects or medical camps in nations usually hostile to them.

What gave you the impression that christians don’t walk the walk.

Please stop talking generalities, that can go both ways.

Minah-pa: 5 of the very few Islamic charities have been closed due to ‘terrorist’ ties…A 6 month old baby will have to starve to death because his father’s name was in the list of Israeli’s most wanted men, so take out the charities which suport those orphans like the Holy Land Foundation, which provided food and medicine for destitute Palestinians…

As for 7-11, I used to work there, never played lottery, don’t have an interest bearing account and certainly don’t eat pork Alhumdulillah, and I truly consider myself as not a very good Muslim, so you can imagine how many ‘good’ Muslims must live…

And as for Muslims, you must not forget history, when the Christians were on the warpath during their growing years, their history of carrying the cross had not been very Christianlike, it was Muslims, who on many occasions, protected the Jews and the Christians from their foes…I can give you historical documents proving that it happened…

I am not trying to start a religious argument here, because in Pakistan as well as in US, I have many Christian friends…Even the Quran mentions Christians being the closest to understand us, because they have monks amongst them…

But they are not a Christian like Bush and neither do they sound like one…Your rhetoric was bordering on being ‘bush-type’…

lostsoul · May 17, 2005, 6:29pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

OG,

Based on that assessment, several mosques were also bombed in afghanistan and iraq, do u suppose Quran was also trashed and desecrated there?

Lajawab · May 17, 2005, 6:30pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

Ohioguy:

Since we have folks here who only believe that Pakistani press, here is a report of an attack on a Christian Church in Paksitan attacked on Easter Morning 2005. If someone would blast away at worshipers, they would defile a bible. Get it? If the claim is that Muslims some how would NEVER violate someone elses religion, I beg to differ.

Generally shooting guns and lobbing grenades and suicide bombings of other sects and religions tends to undercut your high ground.

Background:

The Dogars of the area had been demanding the Christians to handover the land to them that was allotted to the Christians by their forefathers before partition. The Christians of the area had built their houses on this 16 Kanal land and some part of it was used as their graveyard that also had a church built in the same area, where they used to say their prayers.

Incidence:

Today on 27 March 2005 at 10:30 a.m. the Dogars (caste in Muslims) namely Mukhtar Dogar s/o Din Mohammad, Zulfiqar Ali alias Pappu alias Malki s/o Din Mohammad, Imran alias Kali s/o Sardar Mohammad and Shah Behram alias Gogi s/o Sardar Mohammad opened fire on the congregation of Victory Church International affiliated with Raiwind Diocese of Pakistan. This church was once called New Apostolic Church.

The team was met with a big gathering of Christians who were standing in the premises of the hospital.

Statement of Niamat Masih (injured):

According to Niamat Masih s/o Channan Masih age about 26/27 years who was also shot on his left hand during the firing on the congregation, told that about 150-200 Christian families live in the area and rest of the population consists of Muslims in the area of village Khamba, Wapda Town, Phase II, Lahore. There had been some dispute between Christians and Muslims on the land that was allotted to the forefathers of Christians by the forefathers of Muslims before partition. Now in the recent years the government had has planned a housing scheme in their area that has raised the value of the land, therefore, the Dogars wanted the land that was allotted to the Christian community.

Today on 27 March 2005 at 10:30 a.m. after the Easter service when the people were coming out of the church when the Dogars namely Mukhtar Dogar s/o Din Mohammad, Zulfiqar Ali alias Pappu alias Malki s/o Din Mohammad, Imran alias Kali s/o Sardar Mohammad and Shah Behram alias Gogi s/o Sardar Mohammad opened fire on them. The culprits fired for half-an-hour and during this process one Irshad Masih s/o Said Masih died on the spot. Irshad was shot near his right eye and the bullet went through his head due to which he could not survive. Also Arshad Masih s/o Bashir Masih, Naeem Masih s/o Ismaeel Masih, Ismaeel Masih s/o Siraj Masih, Pervez Masih s/o Sadique Masih, Jameel Masih s/o Sadique Masih, Imram Masih got injured due heavy firing of the Dogars. They all were taken to the hospital while the police was called on emergency number 15. The police raided the spot and arrested the four culprits and recovered weapons from them i.e. Pump Action, 244 Bore Riffle and 30 Bore pistol.
http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/newsdetails.php?newsid=572

:D…The land and water wars of Sindh and Punjab…

They fight constantly…They are our version of the Hatfields and McCoys…

Religion isn’t important here…

minah_pa · May 17, 2005, 6:34pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

Lajawab - I don't have to imagine, I live with three 'good' Muslims who like myself, don't drink gamble or eat pork. Doesn't mean we don't know Muslims who do and there are plenty that do.

A Muslim friend of my husband thought I was insulting him when I turned down an offer of scotch because I was a christian gora so I must drink, therefore I didn't like him. This as he filled his own cup and the cups of the other men and two women (all Muslim).

Why generalize like that? I don't believe all Muslims are that way or act that way - why make the same assumptions about Christians or even most christians.

Bush is not a Catholic, that is all I will say on whatever his religion is.

Ohioguy · May 17, 2005, 6:34pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

Sorry, The grenade attack by a Muslim cleric dressed in a Burkka on a Christian Church on the day celebrating the birth of Christ sort of belies the arguement that Muslims are respectful of the bible. This was an attack on a religion, on a high holiday for no other reason than to kill infidels. Get off your high horses...

lostsoul · May 17, 2005, 6:37pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

OG,

what happened to supporting watimes story, of whicg this whole thread was created

Lajawab · May 17, 2005, 6:37pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

It was an Indian spy, who was later caught and killed by a mob of Christian and Muslim fundamentalists…

He wanted to create unrest in Pakistan by starting religious violence…

minah_pa · May 17, 2005, 6:38pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

OG - still not a bible, killing people doesn't count....

lostsoul · May 17, 2005, 6:42pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

i thought u were on our side !?

Marrying a pakistani obligates u, NO?

masterofall240 · May 17, 2005, 6:43pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

yep, if it’s not the Jews, then it’s the Hindus.

Ranjhan · May 17, 2005, 6:45pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

Oh my God this is like so wrong, those bastrads should be stoned Muslim style.

During the time of our Prophet (Salaam and Salaat be upon him) and his rightly guided Caliphs (Allah be pleased with them) the sanctity of the places of worship of other faiths was always respected.

These monsters have gone completely against the teachings of Islam by doing this because Islam forbids showing disrespect even to pagan religions and Abrahamic religions are clearly worthy of more respect for the part heavenly truth that may have survived in them, Christian and Jewish scriptures may contain parts which are sacred to us too, e.g. the name of Jehovah Subhanahu Wa Ta’aala, the names of holy personalities like the prophets (Salaam & Salaat be upon them), the Messiah (Salaam and Salaat be upon him) and his mother the holy virgin Mary (Salaam and Salaat be upon her), disrespect to these things is blasphemy even towards Islam.

And then going and eating the eating the flesh of swine and consuming liquor shows their disregard for the laws of their own religion, don’t expect them to have any respect for anyone else’s.

[quote]
Funny how these Palestinian terrorists are heroes in the Muslim world until it is necessary to claim a moral high ground because of this big drama play over the Quran. Only now are they called what they really are: mentally sick people and a cell of extremists. But these are the people who are fighting jihad, don't abandon them now!
[/quote]

Don’t throw stones if you live in glass house yourself, these guys are extremists and terrorists no doubt, but so is America.

I don’t know if these dudes who kill innocents and desecrate sacred things of other religions are really Muslim or just agents of the Kuffaar doing their bit to malign Islam, because as a Muslim I really can’t believe anyone of my faith would do a thing like that.

If they are Muslims we don’t condone a lot of their actions but don’t assume the usual bull**** “your either with them or us” because yeah if these guys are terrorists so is America and it’s military, if America wasn’t so partial to Israel these groups wouldn’t exist and if it were one bit fair terrorist organisations wouldn’t find any support amongst the Ummah, it’s only because the west is butt-fcuking the Muslim world in every way that helpless Muslims have to resort to terrorism to vent their frustrations.

minah_pa · May 17, 2005, 6:46pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

lostsoul - I am on so many sides I am transparent :D

ranjhan - I say this with kindness because I like you :) the story was proven false by page 2-3, now it's just random insults

Ohioguy · May 17, 2005, 6:46pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

lostsoul, The larger arguement here is not just the physical defacement of a bible. I believe the Wa Time article because I believe that it is consistant with other observations about how other religions are treated by Muslims. The "We would never deface a bible" flies in the face of other behaviors towards Christians, Shia, and Ahamdi, and heaven knows, Jews and Hindus.

You very much want to think that your behavior is superior, but it is not. Religious freedom and religious tolerance is lowest in Muslim countries. That is a fact.

lostsoul · May 17, 2005, 6:52pm

Re: Palestinian Gunmen Used Bible as Toilet Paper, Stole Sacramental Objects.

OG,

Never claimed that my behaviour is superior. Never calimed that Pakistan is bastion of religous tolerance

But ur views of Muslims' bible desecration r wrong. Your support for watimes story is also wrong. The story is baseless, uncorroborated at best. Stop supporting such stupid artciles

No one is on high horse. You did what u did in Abu ghraib, and who got what sentences. It is hilarious at best

I do not even have any object on Quran desecration. Hey, use anything that breaks a prisoner. Even use sodomy. or any chemical rod. But dont ever say that u respect religions, and publish religous report by state dept every year.

This is the height of hypocrisy