Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

When will these Palestinians learn that gun culture is not going to help build an independent state.

It is just sad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/28/international/middleeast/28cnd-mideast.html

November 28, 2005
Palestinian Gunmen Force the Postponement of Vote in Gaza
By STEVEN ERLANGER
JERUSALEM, Nov. 28 - Palestinian gunmen, shooting into the air, pushed their way into polling stations in Gaza today and forced the postponement of primary elections for the main Palestinian party, Fatah, led by President Mahmoud Abbas.

The violence - and the unrelated kidnapping by gunmen of a lion cub and rare parrots from the Gaza zoo - were further examples of the chaos in Gaza, especially among rival security forces, as Mr. Abbas tries to restore stability, exercise authority and prepare the population for legislative elections on Jan. 25.

In 1996, the year of the last parliamentary elections (votes scheduled for 2000 and 2004 were postponed), Yasir Arafat picked all of Fatah’s candidates. Now, a year after Mr. Arafat’s death, Mr. Abbas is trying to bring more transparency and democracy to Palestinian political life and to Fatah, which dominates the Palestinian Authority.

But there have been widespread complaints of fraud, with gunmen and candidates complaining of ballot-stuffing and that valid voters were missing from election rolls.

Mr. Abbas and Fatah face a significant challenge in January from the radical Islamic movement Hamas, which refuses to give up its weapons and is committed to the destruction of Israel. Hamas, which has done well in municipal elections, is running in the legislative elections for the first time, and both Israel and Washington are deeply worried about how well Hamas will do. In opinion polls, Hamas, whose leaders are picking its candidates, receives about 30 percent of the putative vote, but many Palestinians say they are upset with the performance of Mr. Abbas and Fatah.

In weekend primary voting in the more populous and secular West Bank, Fatah’s younger generation did very well, a measure of the popular dissatisfaction with the current Fatah leadership, many of whom returned from exile to the Palestinian territories in 1994 with Mr. Arafat after the 1993 Oslo accords with Israel.

In Ramallah, for example, Marwan Barghouti, who led the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades and is serving consecutive life sentences in an Israeli jail, was named on 96 percent of the ballots in a 10-person race. Mr. Barghouti’s strong showing was seen as a blow to Fatah’s old guard and will intensify the power struggle among generations and between those who were in exile or, like Mr. Barghouti, grew up in the territories under Israeli occupation.

On one hand, the struggle is salutary and clarifying; on the other, it may weaken Fatah in the face of a relatively united Hamas movement, with its reputation of holiness and honesty.

In response, some Israeli politicians, especially the dovish party leader Yossi Beilin, called on Mr. Barghouti to be released from prison as a Palestinian leader who could credibly negotiate peace with Israel.

But after Prime Minister Ariel Sharon broke with his Likud Party to establish the new Kadima party, Israeli politicians fighting for the center and the right competed in refusing to sanction the idea of an early release for Mr. Barghouti, who was convicted of ordering the killings of Israelis.

But even more than usual, with concurrent elections battles among the Palestinians and the Israelis, all comments about policy are highly seasoned with politics.

The new leader of Israel’s Labor Party, for instance, Amir Peretz, Morocco-born, has tried to move to the center by saying, like Mr. Sharon, that he would never redivide Jerusalem. Mr. Peretz, a trade-union leader who defeated long-time party leader Shimon Peres, 82, in a close race, has brought new life and spirit to Labor, but he has also refused to be interviewed by foreign journalists because his aides admit that he does not yet have a coherent platform.

Mr. Peretz, who has no great love for Mr. Peres, offered him the powerless presidency of the party and a purely symbolic last place on Labor’s parliamentary list for the elections on March 28. Mr. Peres has rejected this call for his effective retirement and is contemplating a request from Mr. Sharon to join him in the new Kadima party and, if Mr. Sharon is re-elected prime minister, to take responsibility for the peace process.

Mr. Peres says he will consider the offer; his brother, Gigi Peres, in the meantime attacked Mr. Peretz today on Israeli army radio, calling him a “foreign body” in Labor who, along with his people “from North Africa” had taken over Labor the way the fascist Francisco Franco and the Falangists took over Spain in the 1930’s.

The analogy is inexact, given the lack of a civil war in Israel, but Gigi Peres set off another fine political contretemps, with a Peretz supporter, Yuli Tamir, demanding that Mr. Peres apologize - to his own brother.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

When you and your ancestors get kicked out of your homes at gun point, perhaps you will understand what they go through

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

May be when they have enough guns/aircrafts/tanks, may be then they wont need gun culture.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

Excuses, Excuses, and more conspiracy theories. This is typical for the ones who don’t want to own their actions.

Tribal people are prone to gun culture, regardless of the region. The difference is that some tribals learn to become civilized and join the urban folks. Unfortunately, Palestinians have not been able to figure this out, so the bloodshed and anarchy goes on unchecked.

Best regards

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

Tribal people are prone to gun culture to protect their rights collectively, but what’s the reason for such in Washington DC, New Orleans, and LA? It has a rampant gun culture, its urban and civilized (on your standards) and its not a tribal society.

The tribal-urban has no relationship at all, tribal societies can be highly urbanized and civilized, all you have to do is to look at the oldest cities in the world Areha, Damascus, and its tribal characteristics, look at Amman or even occupied Quds it has tribal characteristics as well, and it doesn’t get any civilized than this.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

Antiobl, can israel guarantee that another sabira, shatilla will not happen?
Wasn't one of the reasons it was very easy because there weren't any gunmen in the camp to protect it????

Why should the conflict be soo onesided??????
Israelis should've everything while palestineans nothing?
Hizbollah is terrorist while israel gets away with invading lebanon and even bombing them time to time when PLO isn't even there anymore?

Do the people over there have to pay for the crimes that the europeans committed against Jews?

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

That’s incorrect. The Arabs and their leadership agreed over 50 years ago in principle to hand in the areas now under Israel over to the jews. Why are these Arabs they crying wolf now?? Beats me!

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

From 1915 (when Sharif Hussain’s, great grand father of of current king of Jordan, started collaboration with the british) till 14 May1948 when Gurion proclaimed Israel, the british were in charge. So now come again, who handed over what to the jews.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

So what was THIS dude doing at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919 that charted out the future of the middle east? This “King” Faisal of Iraq was the major Arab respresentative at that conference and accepted the British Balfour declaration which called for an establishment of Israel. If I sound unbelievable see it for yourself…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_I_of_Iraq
And yeah, he looks good posing with Chaim Weizmann, the president of the World Zionist Organisation at that time.
It’s high time they told us what REALLY happened and stop crying about those conspiracy theories!

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

^^ Good on buster! Maulanas just ran away from this thread. These Maulanas live in a made up world, and messed up history.

Best regards

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

King Faisal was “given” Iraq as a gift by the brits after WWII!

That’s why he didn’t stay long after (except jordan which hashmite family remained and saudia..).

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

huh! If I remember correctly, the Hashimite family took over control of Jorda, Saudi, Iraq (and may be Kuwait). However there was no “gifting” unless you want to say that Brits “gifted” Bharat to Nehru, and “gifted” Pak to Jinnah.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

His version of history is entirely correct, and yours is certainly not. The Hashemites were expelled from Hejaz by the Al-Sauds, who took over all that is now Saudi Arabia, and Britain sided with them. The Hashemites escaped to the TransJordan area, where they proclaimed their own emirate over a people they had never ruled before. While the British colonials also installed Faisal of the Hashemites as King of neighbouring Iraq, because he had been a staunch ally of their’s during the uprising against the Ottoman Turks.

So yes, Iraq (and Jordan) were in effect gifted to the Hashemites by the British for services rendered. Colonialism at it’s best.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

Humm! According to your logic Brits “gifted” Bharat to Nehru-Gandhi cabal, and “gifted” Pak to Jinnah for the “services rendered”?

And Brits also “gifted” UK-aloo stores to “importies” from Bharat and Pak for the “services rendered” by the “Mir-poorias”, Madrasis, and Karalites?!

What kind of logic is that?

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

What are you talking about? Your facts are wrong, simple. Aloo stores, Bharat and all the rest have no connection to this discussion, and only you seem to be going about it, to cover up your lack of historical knowledge.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

Oh Baboo! Ask an literate Arab (there are few to come by) and he will tell you Pakistan (and Bharat) are the result of British Colonialism.

Best regards

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

They may or may not, but it is not relevant to this discussion. Your historical facts are wrong, simple. The Hashemites originate from the Hejaz (Western S Arabia), and the first royal rulers of Iraq and Jordan were born there, and ended up being rulers of peoples and lands they had never ruled. That was not by any stroke of luck, but by colonial fiat.

Re: Palestine: Growing pains, Abu Mazan, and the gunmen

^^ Some people actually do believe it that way!!! :smiley:

Anyway, there was a constitutional, civil, military (Chandra Bose though not very successful) struggle to get british out of India. Though I am not saying that British would have had an easy going with all the arabs (there could’ve been resistance) but the point is that the rulers that ended up ruling the country were not the faces of resistance against foreign occupation!