Pakistan's top judge is suspended (Merged)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
201

Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Probably President knew about the misdeeds of CJ too. He did not act until someone made complain (Naeem Bukhari by his letter). Same goes regarding other cases related to ministers. If someone would complain with proof, he might discuss that with Prime Minister and it would be duty of Prime Minister to sort that out. Well, if Prime Minister does not (due to any political reason) then President would have choice to let that happen or sack the government, dissolve the parliament and call for new election (or in present situation, simply impose martial law again)

Obviously, while there is parliament and Prime Minister in office, it would not be right for President to interfere with ministerial matters (though we all know that President does, else we would have same type of economy as what use to be in past, a bankrupt economy, and many ministers would have started their own Swiss bank account)

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended

I knew that your post would have things beyond my limited intelligence :slight_smile: and to answer your question would need Super PhD in Psychology. Bhai, I am a person with moderate intelligence, please keep your post to that moderate intellectual level. Its because after reading your post, I am still thinking what illegal action Musharraf took, so that I could have answered you :halo:

Please be assured that Musharraf is not part of enquiry. He just initiated that and now it would be SJC that would do the enquiry. As for his action to be legal or illegal, I believe that I have posted the part of constitution that shows that what he did was not only legal but it was a must, a duty on President to do that (please read article 209, clause 5 b.

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended

It is okay for Musharraf to interfere wtih the judiciary for alleged corruption but not okay to have his hand picked cabinet investigated for what everyone knows to be massive corruption. :rotfl:Has anyone been punished for the Sugar Scam, Cement Scam, KSE scam? Anyone? Now we need Naeem Bokhari writing a letter for Musharraf to act?

You need to join the kitchen cabinet advising Musharraf. You will be a valuable asset to him in defending the corrupt. :hehe:

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

You don't lack intelligence Saleem, you lack common sense I'm afraid. The law you quoted yourself allows Musharraf to start an inquiry, nothing more, nothing less. Get it?

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Well, Chief Justice was also hand picked by Musharraf from what was available to him in Pakistan judiciary system. Same is true regarding his parliamentary cabinet, as all who are in cabinet , are there from those that were available to President Musharraf after 2002 election. So, what is the big deal? :D

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

We have just discovered how to make wheels of Pakistani justice move. Just have Naeem Bokhari write letters and every injustice can be rectified. Now let's have Naeem write letters to UN asking for Kashmir resolution also.

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Yes, the law I mentioned allows Musharraf to start enquiry, nothing more and nothing less. As for common sense, it dictates that enquiry cannot be done on a person when that person himself is heading the enquiry body that is doing enquiry on him. Hence, for getting an enquiry done on CJ, CJ has to get suspended, else enquiry means nothing but farce.

In constitution there is nothing that says that CJ cannot be suspended if an enquiry is done on him but as one can see that the law becomes meaningless if enquiry is done on him and he is not suspended. So common sense (and sprite of law) that is normally unwritten but well understood, that is attached to all laws, dictates that CJ should get suspended if enquiry is done on him by a body that should be headed by CJ.

So, what Musharraf has done, he has done right by suspending the CJ. If you can show in constitution that says that CJ (or any judge or any officer) cannot be suspended if enquiry is initiated on him, I would agree with you (though that would mean that the particular law regarding enquiry about a person done under the person own supervision, would be a farce law)

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Re: Naeem Bokhari suspended by Punjab Bar Council

This all issue is getting wierd now...President kicked out the corrupt CJ...& now people after the pres & those who support him...Crazy bunch..

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Except that majority of legal experts in Pakistan disagree with you. The law is the law for a reason. Musharraf is not allowed to suspend the CJ or put him under house arrest. Period. Maybe the council can do this through a vote, but the President cannot and thus his actions are illegal. You don't like the law, you change it through proper procedures. Following the spirit of the law does not mean you go beyond what the law states. Next thing you will tell me is that the CJ can be executed on the spot by Musharraf just because there is no explicit reference against it in the constitution.

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Brother, what can I say? It seems that you are not trying to understand the meaning of common sense that goes with laws. A law means something and a law cannot be farce. A law regarding enquiry would be farce if someone heads his own enquiry.

Just imagine that law says that you can drive if you have driving licence. You won’t find in any law that says that the driving licence has to be issued by the government of the country where you are driving (or a driving licence should be such that government of the country where you are driving approves that). So, according to the wording of the law, if I (or any friend) issue you a driving licence you should be able to drive, because you have that driving licence, though that is issued not by government but me, right?

Unfortunately, if you would do that, police would still arrest you of driving without licence. But if you will go to court on that arrest and argue that since law does not say that driving licence has to be issued by the government, I am right, because I have driving licence, even though the issuing body is Sa1eem, no court would accept that.

What you think, would it work? No …. Why? Because the sprite of the law (that means, common sense behind the law interpretation) would be that even though it does not say that licence is issued by the government, it should be, because else law of driving without driving licence would be meaningless, as anyone can make a driving licence on a piece of paper by writing driving licence and driving.

I hope you got it and hope you understood what common sense behind law means (that is sprite of law that makes a law meaningful). Same is true regarding enquiry of a person and suspension of that person before enquiry starts, else law become meaningless, just like law of driving licence.

As what some so-called legal experts in Pakistan are saying, they are just BS as it is possible that they are paid to say that or whatever. It seems that they are blank from top. If that is what they are interpreting, that would mean, they are saying that laws could be farce, but in reality their interpretation is farce.

** Another example:** Same is true regarding many things. Suppose you agree to sell me a car for 10 lac rupees and I took the car with promise to give you 10 lac rupees in a month. Now after a month I give you a piece of paper saying that this paper is 10 lac rupees because I wrote 10 lac rupees there, you will not accept it, would you. If you will go to court and I tell the judge that we agreed 10 lac rupees and I gave him 10 lac rupees, here it is, judge would also not accept that, why?

Because when we agreed 10 lac, it means currency that is issued by government and is legal tender, else that would be a farce promise and whatever said, no judge would accept my payment to you of 10 lac that I created by writing 10 lac on piece of paper.

*Thus, no law, no promise or no wording is complete without common sense that goes behind that and that common sense make sure that what is made law, what is promissed or what word is used, it has meaning and is not just a farce statement.
*

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended

Here is a nice summary from an advocate of supreme court. It is published in Dawn.

http://dawn.com/2007/03/11/top8.htm

By Anees Jillani

Article 209(7) of the Constitution says that a judge of the Supreme Court or of a High Court cannot be removed from office except as provided by this article. These two lines are simple and clear and one can easily come to the conclusion that the chief justice, in the context of the present imbroglio, can only be removed under Article 209 and in no other manner. There is no reason to even look at any other article of the Constitution; in the case of a conflict, 209(7) would become redundant and absurd.

Article 209 talks about a Supreme Judicial Council (SJC), consisting of the CJ, the two next senior-most judges of the Supreme Court, and the two most senior High Court chief justices.

The President of Pakistan has sent a reference against the CJ to this very Council.

The reference has apparently been filed under Article 209(5) of the Constitution which says that the president, if he comes to know about a judge’s alleged misconduct through information received from the SJC or from any other source, can ask the Council to “inquire into the matter” to determine whether the judge is guilty of the charge.

The judge whose conduct is under review obviously cannot continue sitting in the Council if he is a member, and is therefore replaced by the next senior-most member. Article 209(4) further says that if there is ultimately a difference of opinion amongst the members, the opinion of the majority shall prevail and the Council’s report to the president shall be expressed in terms of the view of the majority.

Article 209(6) says that after inquiring into the matter, the Council shall report to the president as to whether the judge has been found to be guilty of misconduct, and it shall be the Council that will advise the president as to whether the judge should be removed from office. If so advised, the president may remove the judge.

The constitutional provision on this subject cannot be clearer. Firstly, it says that a judge of the Supreme Court or a High Court cannot be removed, except through the Supreme Judicial Council. Secondly, the provision talks about the Council’s membership, and says that the judge whose conduct is being inquired into cannot continue to sit on the Council. Thirdly, it says that if the president comes to know through any source about misconduct involving a judge, he can refer the matter to the Council. Fourthly, it will be the Council that will find the judge guilty or not guilty, and it will only be the Council that will advise the president as to whether the judge should be removed or not.

The president has obviously been wrongly advised to take the unconstitutional step of ‘sacking’ or ‘suspending’ the chief justice. He has no authority under the Constitution to do this.

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

Oh Yeah, why don't you low life, army haters, beleivers in parliamentary system get some common sense. But no, you eill not get the common sense unless it is hammered down onto you. You need to get a "chhitrowl" or perhaps a disappearence and then you will understand.

The Law says, its okay for people to disappear, as long as, it is deemed necessary, who the hell was this CJ to take up their case in supreme council. Didn't we make an example of their relatives, we made them naked and hammered their bare arses with "maula Bakhsh". But this stupid CJ did not understand. He had no common sense.

Our dear PM, had after a ot of hardwork found Habib group who was to purchase Steel Mill, but this stupid CJ stopped it and caused loss of billions of rupees.

Then he also took up the case of Baghalchor, where atomic waste was being dumped, what lack of common sense that he considered lives of ordinary dump-dwellers more important than national security.

Now i recomend you all, who have been crying over the dismissal and house arrest of CJ, to apologise and beg for forgiveness from God. Tum loag Zill-e-Subhani ki Riaya ho aur Riaya ki tarah raho.

Kifis Kofo fafay Kifi Bofolifi Afatifi Hafay? *grin*
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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended

—”A lot of armed people are inside the house and we are restricted to one room,” said a text message sent by the frightened daughter of Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry to one of her friend on Friday evening.
The message was part of a sole communication link established secretly by the teenage daughter of the Chief Justice with one of her very close friend and a class fellow. This was the only link the whole family of seven had with the outer world.
The link could not be severed by the armed persons, who had taken over the house of the Chief Justice, cordoned off the entire neighbourhood and blocked all the landline and cell phone connections, as the Chief Justice’s daughter had managed to keep the cell phone hidden inside the room.
“We are restricted to one room,” another message sent at 8:00 pm on Friday night by her said. The teenager stayed in that room along with her parents, two other sisters and two brothers. The youngest of the brother, who is six years old, was totally freaked out because of the chaos that was unfolding around them.
Earlier, at around 3:00 pm she called her friend and told her to direct other friends not to call or SMS her. She didn’t give any details and told her friend that she will tell her the details later.
Later at 6:00 in the evening she called her friend again from a landline and told her, “My father has been told to leave the office and is now under house arrest.”
http://nation.com.pk/daily/mar-2007/11/index8.php

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Re: Trapped in a room and scared

Lets face it, Chief Justice was poking his judicial finger into holy ______ and only way left for him now is to resign, or, may be as a last option he can try, kissing army boots and plead for forgiveness.

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

And LOL ...what a funny comments passed by my some friends...that CJ should be punished for his son.....as this our dear country is a Utopia were Dr.Arsalan is the "first" case of reference.......hahahaha more than 95% jobs in pakistan from clerical staff to highly professional degrees holders are given on the bases of reference or commonly "pawa" as we call it.......General is blind over that !!!!!!! Law commission is blind over that !!!!! Naeem Bukhari is blind over that !!!!!!! the person who is charged for more than 12 cases of murders is now the Governor of Sindh ....General is blind over that...a party which in the past accused of breaking Karachi and Hyderabad ino Jinnah Poor with proofs of help with RAW and indian agencies...killed more than 10,000 or 15,000 innocent people in karachi and sindh...torture cells...drilling boddies..chopped nose and ears ...pulling nails from plas etc etc...they are now the God-Fahers of karachi and whole sindh...General is blind over that...... no misconduct ...no charges...Faisal saleh hayat and co. billions of Rs. they stole in black market...Sugar crisis in Pakistan in which Hamauyun Akhtar ad co. was involved ....Chaudry bank debts...... Shaukat Aziz... intention in the most biggest fraud of Pakistan history...Steel mill Karachi on the lowest price and kicks backs and commission ...when all this happening Musharraf and his co. were dozzing ...and when in the first time of history ...a single letter written by even a common person reached CJ of Pakistan...istantly action was aking place...law and orders implementers ...police and IG's were shattle cocks between thier provinces and SC for poor conditions...the Chief secretaries had a deep insult in SC...the nazims of disricts were in a "miseable" state of the looting money "clarification"...the basant rate reduced to 50 % due to SC as only 2 days available......the 40 or lost people came to home after 3 years agencies released them by strict behaviour of CJ..........so now you people are saying why CJ ordered to escort him with 3 cars ....... the biggest joke of the history of Pakistan....

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

these generals ..did not indulge in any misconduct....have ever visited to Cantt area ...look at the "palaces" of these brigadiers ..Lt. generals and corp. commanders ...if you ever have a chance to visit at night of Corp.Commander house ...you will realize that you come to Wapda House ......thousands of bulb on his grand palace ......see he is a soldier whose job is to defend homeland .......at least 5 or 6 cars available to them...there budget not even presented to NA or parliment ..the most high authority.....nobody knows where more than 70 % of GDP go.....state within a state ...no misconduct...no charges ..... no sanctions.......

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Re: Pakistan's top judge is suspended

these booted generals which are mostly "matric pass" always hear "yes sir ...yes sir" voice ...so when SC denies thier orders ...they get out of control !!!!! thats the nutshell .....

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Re: Naeem Bokhari suspended by Punjab Bar Council

This appears to be a knee jerk reaction by Bar council and was not needed.

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Re: Naeem Bokhari suspended by Punjab Bar Council

Kudos for them for kicking out the dictator's toady...

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Re: Pakistan’s top judge is suspended

Thank you for posting this Abbas. I hope Anees Jilani remains safe. Another legal expert who is proving the army lotas wrong, but like always some excuse will be made about how its good for Pakistan when fundamental laws are broken. Who are we the simple people to question uncle Mush and his army lotas? They always know what’s best for us.

Let us rejoice at the death of the Supreme Court as an institution!