Pakistan's map

[Sa1eem]

Re: Pakistan’s map

@TLK

^ am I an Indian?
@Sa1eem . Bro, what’s bothering me is the fabricated history and false information that we are basing our school syllabus on. If somehow you are convinced that we can produce intelligent generation by teaching them false reality then that is your view. I think that we are being dishonest to our own people.

And for God’s sake, can we stop debating that oh India is doing it… So somehow our standards should be based on what India is doing. Don’t we have our own backbone? Not just this thread, but this whole forum is full of such justifications. Our justifications of every corruption, every human right violation, every stupidity is … oh but India is doing it. We just can’t have more intelligent conversation than that.

Brother, I am not saying that: ‘Pakistan should base standard on what India is doing’ … Actually, what I wrote in simple words is:

1: Accept line of control as international border, consider Kashmir issue as solved. That is, ‘Azad Kashmir, Gilgit and Baltistan as part of Pakistan’ and ‘Occupied Kashmir as part of India’.

[One solution that India would have no problem to accept … but it is unlikely that Pakistan army or Kashmiris would accept … Maybe, some politicians like Shareefs and Bhuttos would agree, but most Pakistanis and number of politicians would not agree]

2: Do not accept line of control as international border, consider Kashmir as an unfinished issue, future of Kashmir undecided, and work to get that unfinished issue sorted out so that future of Kashmir can be decided. This can be done … only with consent of India, Pakistan, (Kashmiris can be brought in to discussion too) and/or war.

2a: Ideally, sort out Kashmir issue through plebiscite accordance to UN resolution (seems unacceptable to India).

2b: Get to some mutually acceptable agreement to sort out Kashmir issue (Musharraf tried).

2c: Work for Independence of Kashmir as sovereign country (Musharraf proposed that too).

2d: Be ready for war if war becomes the only solution (Kargil was part of this option)

So … please read, try to understand, than think of the options available. Well, if you think of any other option, please put forward.

Note: As situation is, Unfortunately there is no option for Kashmir to become an independent country. Kashmir has to be part of Pakistan or India … but Kashmir could become independent country if both Pakistan and India decides.

[queer]

Re: Pakistan's map

here's my idea, saleem bhaiyya.

war, jihad etc. is unwinnable for either country and will bleed both of valuable resources. especially in today's climate.

tie kashmir settlement to concessions in other areas of interest to the two countries. bargain and negotiate. water, trade, land route, sea port access, pipelines, tariffs, market access for certain goods.. its two big countries with lots on their wishlists. be pragmatic.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Pakistan's map

India won't negotiate as I have heard that it fears other parts of india (re: northeast) would try, if not actually, secede after that.

I have seen some "analysts" like Christine Fair say india has instrument of ascension though it did go to UN for hold plebiscite. Pakistan also had the instrument of secession for Junagadh but india kept that. If nehru etc were sincere, they would have done a trade off for junagadh and kashmir and also not held back Pakistan's part of the money. Gandhi had to go on a fasting strike but then he was killed by a hindutva for his crime of being a pakistani / muslim double agent.

Due to global warming and increasing population demands on water, I can see a future war between the two countries that would spiral out of hand very fast especially if India ever gets to the Security Council. India can then just choose to ignore the indus treaty like others have done on security council especially with a rightwing hindutva in power.

India's middle class is rising and they do prefer Modi and BJP types who do a lot of chest thumping. Lets see if we ever go to nuclear war because of water and kashmir.

[queer]

Re: Pakistan's map

i'd say that would be the simplistic and defensive pakistani take on things. reality is modi's chest thumping gave him only election losses, and now he's back to kissing it up with nawaz. no one remembers nehru or gandhi or junagarh. pakistanis hold events from 40s and 50s as dear to them as it is a matter of identity, indians have a shorter memory span, most have never heard of junagarh. of course, there is no accounting for right-wingers, of which india has its fair share. a majority of indians will go for making LoC permanent or LoC permanent with autonomy for the srinagar valley even today without much to negotiate over.

[TLK]

Re: Pakistan's map

I think we are drifting from the original intent of my first post. I am all for the peaceful resolution of the Kashmir dispute, but showing the disputed territory as part of your official map is wrong.

Having said that, I have met several Muslim Kashmiris (Indian side) and they take an offense if you don't recognize them as an Indian. So whether Pakistan likes it or not, your average Indian Muslim Kashmiri wants to remain part of India.

[Jolie]

Re: Pakistan's map

@TLK

I think we are drifting from the original intent of my first post. I am all for the peaceful resolution of the Kashmir dispute, but showing the disputed territory as part of your official map is wrong.

Having said that, I have met several Muslim Kashmiris (Indian side) and they take an offense if you don't recognize them as an Indian. So whether Pakistan likes it or not, your average Indian Muslim Kashmiri wants to remain part of India.

Now the cat's out of the bag. I think you have said what you actually wanted to say, the thread can be closed now. so much for "intelligent" conversion on history and geography. Innit TLK. :D

[Jolie]

Re: Pakistan's map

@TLK

Let's deviate from the actual point and start attacking the way things were said, and start doing character assassination by implying that person is ghaddar hence his thought process - because that somehow makes all the wrong things, right.

Aap ko tou siyasat main hona chaheeye thaa.

What was the actual point? You accused Pakistan for being the only country in the world for "lying" about its international borders, when China and India get called out for the same thing, you get defensive and don't admit the wrong as a wrong. But really People are not mind readers here, perhaps you really need to start being a little careful with your words when you are talking about country as a whole.

I wonder how China ad India managed to get ahead despite "lying" to their public about their borders? Maybe Chinese and Indians have totally different level of self esteem and sense of identity as certain types of Pakistanis.

[TLK]

Re: Pakistan's map

@Jolie

as certain types of Pakistanis.

And by certain types of Pakistanis, I am sure you mean kaalay kalootay khotay Karachi walay as conpared to pyaaray pyaaray Punjabi patriots.

Hum kya karain Jolie jee. Karachi walay to paida hee ghaddar huai hain, marain ge bhi ghaddar. Aap jesi muhib e watani kahaan se laain hum loag.

Your argument left me convinced, and shameful of my existence.

[Jolie]

Re: Pakistan’s map

@TLK

And by certain types of Pakistanis, I am sure you mean kaalay kalootay khotay Karachi walay as conpared to pyaaray pyaaray Punjabi patriots.

Hum kya karain Jolie jee. Karachi walay to paida hee ghaddar huai hain, marain ge bhi ghaddar. Aap jesi muhib e watani kahaan se laain hum loag.

Your argument left me convinced, and shameful of my existence.

It’s alright. Don’t be ashamed. look what I found for you. List of all territorial disputes in the world. In sab countries ne taraqee ki tou ki kaise despite not being so politically correct, I mean lying, about their boundaries and as a result not producing intelligent people like yourself. Shocking.

List of territorial disputes

[Jolie]

Re: Pakistan's map

By the way, the title of ghaddar currently belongs to the PTI supporters and people of KPK for debating the CPEC. We'll return it back to you once the spotlight is off us.

[Ethan_Hunt]

Re: Pakistan's map

Karachi/Indian GS still can't handle the bantz.

[ajazali]

Re: Pakistan's map

@TLK

And by certain types of Pakistanis, I am sure you mean kaalay kalootay khotay Karachi walay as conpared to pyaaray pyaaray Punjabi patriots.

Hum kya karain Jolie jee. Karachi walay to paida hee ghaddar huai hain, marain ge bhi ghaddar. Aap jesi muhib e watani kahaan se laain hum loag.

Your argument left me convinced, and shameful of my existence.

lollzzz.
Kis kis ko map se hatana hai jaldi bta dain please. shyed MQM b karachi ko map se hatana chahti hai.
btw, abi KPK/pti posters social media pe punjab ko BKU attack ka zimmedar thehra rhay han. Kuch to keh rhay han azad kar do humain. Oon ki azadi k baad final updated map lag jaye ga official site pe.

[Guppshupper]

Re: Pakistan's map

Dude TLK, you wanted to troll - you succeeded. Got a reaction. But why you taking offense to people getting riled up? What gives?

[muqawwee123]

Re: Pakistan's map

Kia Haal Poochte Ho Mere Karoobar Ka,
Aainey Bechta Hun, Andhon Ke Shehar Mein…!

@TLK

[Doppleganger]

Re: Pakistan’s map

Hum kya karain Jolie jee. Karachi walay to paida hee ghaddar huai hain, marain ge bhi ghaddar. Aap jesi muhib e watani kahaan se laain hum loag.

You are in the US, so you are amreeki ghaddar now?

CENTCOMM bhai please take note.

[TLK]

Re: Pakistan’s map

@queer

lets resolve this like adults. we should have a referendum on if TLK is sacha pakistani or indian in disguise.

based on the lack of noor in his posts, i say indian.

Dang it. I wish I had a tube of fair and lovely with me. Then I would considered a real Pakistani

@muqawwee123

Kia Haal Poochte Ho Mere Karoobar Ka,
Aainey Bechta Hun, Andhon Ke Shehar Mein…!

@TLK

Muqa bhai, I am selling magic mirrors now. It makes the user believe that he is the fairest of them all

@Doppleganger

You are in the US, so you are amreeki ghaddar now?

CENTCOMM bhai please take note.

I learned to run away from my leader, altaf Bhai