What is it anyways? I have no clue.
IN Agra, Musharraf said the only dispute b/w India and Pakistan is Kashmir, so the first talks should be solely on Kashmir. Then Agra became a failure, and he returned back.
Now, all talks going on b/w India and Pak is everything but Kashmir. Now we have euphemisms like “Soft Border” to deal with.
I am getting tired with Musharraf’s forced hand-shakes and the univited Indian visits.
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
Look at the recent statements by India. It doesn’t look like they r ready for any negotiation for any time sooner
http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/17/top4.htm
Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran:
“If you look at Jammu and Kashmir, it is such a complex issue. It has been hanging fire for 57 years,” he said. “It stands to reason that to address this issue you need to build a degree of trust and confidence.” That done, the trust would help extend the constituency for peace in both countries, he said and added: “No. We are not putting the issue of Kashmir aside.”
AFP adds: “We look forward to a time when there will be much freer traffic … across the Line of Control,” Mr Saran said. During the peace process, India has set out 72 confidence-building measures.
“We hope agreements are reached on all the CBMs we have put forward,” he said. Among the measures India wants to boost people-to-people contacts are new bus services between Kargil and Poonch to Skardu and other points in Pakistan. It is also seeking joint promotion of tourism and more cultural contacts
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
Pakistan Kashmir policy is simple. A plebicite should be held in Kashmir. How we want to do it differs. In the past it was through the UN and its good offices. Since the rest of the world does not care anymore we have moved on to bi-laterals and where we are making head ground. Lets see where it takes us.
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
we want musharraf for more 7 years in power.....and you will forget kashmir.
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
Sure that is why we are discussing the matter after 10 years.
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
CM, is there a timeline for this discussion?
What has been really agreed b/w Pakistan and India? It looks like that Musharraf tried his best to impose kashmir-related negotiations, and nothing happens...just some bus talks, and softening borders.
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
Define timeline. You want all the discussions from the 1950s? To impose a time line is stupidity. Oslo is a perfect example of that. One must have the will and the required diplomatic skills to make the headway.
What are now called Confidence building measures are being set up in my opinion to establish a link and dependence that can not be over turned. In the past when Kashmir talks broke down, there so no contact. Now with the CBM's we will still have fall back mechanisms that Inshallah will not be over turned.
Small steps are the ones that nobody notices but they make all the difference.
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
So what is subtantially different from Indian position from Agra and now?
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
They are willing to discuss the Kashmir issue. Remember for 40 years until the time Zia came to power the Indians refused to even consider Kashmir an issue for discussion. They always stated it was an integral part of india and there would be no discussion on the matter. Since Zia that has changed, and it has changed much more after Agra.
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
In Agra, Vajpayee made a surprise decision to invite Musharraf. So Musharraf figured that Indians are tired fighting the jihadis and therefore he had the upper hand. He mistook India's conciliation as a sign of weakness. That led to Dec 13 and 2002.
Since then both sides have evolved. Indian leaders have realized that they have to put Kashmir on the table, which they did formally in 2004. Pakistan has realized that a war of a thousand cuts actually inflicted more cuts on Pakistan and is not sustainable especially when Pakistan is slowly regaining its image solely because of its role in the "War on Terror." Also, the international community is no longer willing to condone jihadi acts no matter what the cause, so militancy is on its way out. The direct ties between the likes of Lashkar-e-Tayba and Jaish-e-Mohammed and Al Qaeda have made issues worse.
The idea is to not make rigid statements like "Kashmir is atoot ang" or "Kashmir banega Pakistan," but to slowly improve relations without making hard comments on the status of Kashmir. With peace and prosperity in place for a few years/decades, who knows what each side might agree to? First both sides must get to relative peace and normalcy - that is why you have CBMs. India will slowly reduce troops as Pakistan agrees to close down the jihadi tap. Is it a coincidence that the top Hizb commander in Indian Kashmir was miraculously found a day before Musharraf arrived? It is no more a coincidence than the series of top jihadi commanders being eliminated following the Jan 7 2004 joint statement.
I hope neither side sees others' concessions as a sign of weakness. That is the first step towards miscalculation.
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
I still fail to see what has changed after Agra.
Im Agra, India was rigid and adamant that Kashmir will be discussed with other issues. Musharraf was adamant that other isues r secondary important, and kashmir has to be discussed first and foremost.
What has changed, then?
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
The joint statement (Apr 18) is following. I fail to see “kashmir is core issue” which caused all the furore in Agra.
“Kashmir” has been discussed only once (#6 point)
“6. In this spirit the two leaders addressed the issue of Jammu and Kashmir and agreed to continue these discussions in a sincere and purposeful and forward looking manner for a final settlement. They were satisfied with the discussions and expressed their determination to work together to carry forward the process and to bring the benefit of peace to their people.”
One wonders, what could have not been agreed in Agra?
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
My dear boy or girl recall the events before and after Agra? I clearly remember 1 or 2 speeches which the Indian Govt made where they said Kashmir will not be discussed. Yet it is being discussed as an issue. The Indian govt recognizes that Kashmir is a disputed territory defacto. They are being pressured by the US and EU to make sure there is some forward movement on it.
The basic idea is: Move forward on small issues to build the foundation for Kashmir. This is what has been happening.
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
You keeps on befooling to participants of this forum. For God's sake speak the truth you ugly mother****er.
Farid
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
Dear Farid, to whom is your post directed? This can evolve into a real thriller…let me get my popcorn…
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
That was directed towards me. Farid does not like me nor does he like the concept of Pakistan doing well in any matter. He wishes Pakistan disintegrates and most pakistanis are murdered.
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
This is not true. Indian position is that Kashmir will not be discussed as a core and only subject. Second, Kashmir will not be discussed in a way to redraw boundaries.
Both of these positions have not changed. However Pakistan’s position that Kashmir will be discussed as the only and core subject, has changed. Also, Musharraf last year agreed to set aside UN resolutions and even compromised on the principle of holding a plebiscite in his quest for an early settlement of the Kashmir dispute.
Musharraf was angry at the end of Agra that Kashmir was not being discussed as the only subject. He in fact said Kashmir was the ONLY dispute, all other issues r just nuisances.
The recent joint statement reached b/w India and Pakistan, is not much better than the Shimla agreement. check it out urself
Re: Pakistan's Kashmir Policy
My message was aimed at CM. I admire his 'seventh' sense.
CM
Where did I say Pakistan should be disintegrated and all Pakistanis should be murdered? Can you link any post which suggests above? I consider myself as Pakistani first than other citizenship. As I said earlier you always speak lie and your saga of lies continue since years perhaps more than five years from now? Please stop fooling newcomers in this forum. Seemed you are paid for your stinky, below average comments.
FARID
Re: Pakistan’s Kashmir Policy
I don’t think this is true.
India always discussed Kashmir, but raised issues like cross border terrorism, and Indian terrorirts living in Pakistan.
I would be happy to see some refernces for ur claim.