Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

400 visas in 2 days? I had no idea Pakistan was such an ideal place for Americans seeking jobs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110223/ap_on_re_us/us_pakistan_feuding_spies

                ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – Pakistan's ISI spy agency is ready to split with the CIA because of frustration over what it calls heavy-handed pressure and its anger over what it believes is a covert U.S. operation involving hundreds of contract spies, according to an internal document obtained by The Associated Press and interviews with U.S. and Pakistani officials.

Such a move could seriously damage the U.S war effort in Afghanistan, limit a program targeting al-Qaida insurgents along the Pakistan frontier, and restrict Washington’s access to information in the nuclear-armed country.
According to a statement drafted by the ISI, supported by interviews with officials, an already-fragile relationship between the two agencies collapsed following the shooting death of two Pakistanis by Raymond Davis, a U.S. contracted spy who is in jail in Pakistan facing possible multiple murder charges.
“Post-incident conduct of the CIA has virtually put the partnership into question,” said a media statement prepared by the ISI but never released. A copy was obtained this week by the AP.
The statement accused the CIA of using pressure tactics to free Davis.
“It is hard to predict if the relationship will ever reach the level at which it was prior to the Davis episode,” the statement said. “The onus of not stalling this relationship between the two agencies now squarely lies on the CIA.”
The ISI fears there are hundreds of CIA contracted spies operating in Pakistan without the knowledge of either the Pakistan government or the intelligence agency, a senior Pakistani intelligence official told the AP in an interview. He spoke only on condition he not be identified on grounds that exposure would compromise his security.
Pakistan intelligence had no idea who Davis was or what he was doing when he was arrested, the official said, adding that there are concerns about “how many more Raymond Davises are out there.”
Davis was arrested Jan. 27 in Lahore after shooting two Pakistanis. A third Pakistani was killed by a U.S. Consulate vehicle coming to assist the American. Pakistan demanded the driver be handed over, but the AP has learned the two U.S. employees in the car now are in the United States.
Davis has pleaded self-defense, but the Lahore police upon completing their investigation said they would seek murder charges. The ISI official told the AP that Davis had contacts in the tribal regions and knew both the men he shot. He said the ISI is investigating the possibility that the encounter on the streets of Lahore stemmed from a meeting or from threats to Davis.
U.S. officials deny Davis had prior contact with the men before the incident, and CIA spokesman George Little said any problems between the two agencies will be sorted out.
“The CIA works closely with our Pakistani counterparts on a wide range of security challenges, including our common fight against al-Qaida and its terrorist allies,” he said. “The agency’s ties to ISI have been strong over the years, and when there are issues to sort out, we work through them. That’s the sign of a healthy partnership.”
The CIA repeatedly has tried to penetrate the ISI and learn more about Pakistan’s nuclear program. The ISI has mounted its own operations to gather intelligence on the CIA’s counterterrorism activities
The ISI is now scouring thousands of visas issued to U.S. employees in Pakistan. The ISI official said Davis’ visa application contains bogus references and phone numbers. He said thousands of visas were issued to U.S. Embassy employees over the past five months following a government directive to the Pakistan Embassy in Washington to issue visas without the usual vetting by the interior ministry and the ISI. The same directive was issued to the Pakistan embassies in Britain and the United Arab Emirates, he said.
Within two days of receiving that directive, the Pakistani Embassy issued 400 visas and since then thousands more have been issued, said the ISI official. A Western diplomat in Pakistan agreed that a “floodgate” opened for U.S. Embassy employees requesting Pakistani visas.
The ISI official said his agency knows and works with “the bona fide CIA people in Pakistan” but is upset that the CIA would send others over behind its back. For now, he said, his agency is not talking with the CIA at any level, including the most senior.
To regain support and assistance, he said, “they have to start showing respect, not belittling us, not being belligerent to us, not treating us like we are their lackeys.”
NATO and U.S. operations in Afghanistan could be adversely effected by a split between the ISI and the CIA. Washington complains bitterly about Pakistan’s refusal to go after the Pakistani-headquartered Haqqani network, which is believed to be the strongest fighting force in Afghanistan and closely allied with al-Qaida.
The ISI official said Pakistan is fed up with Washington’s complaints, and he accused the CIA of planting stories about ISI assistance to the Haqqani network.
Relations between the CIA and ISI have been on a downward slide since the name of the U.S. agency’s station chief in Pakistan was leaked in a lawsuit accusing him of killing civilians in a drone strike.
Fearing for his safety, the CIA eventually pulled the station chief out of the country. ISI leaders balked at allegations that they outed the CIA top spy in their country. Former and current U..S. officials believe the station chief fell out of favor, but the Pakistanis say this is not the case
Those accusations and the naming of ISI chief Shujah Pasha in a civil lawsuit in the United States — filed by family members of victims of a November 2008 attack in Mumbai, India, by insurgents — started the downslide in relations, the ISI official said.
To help repair the crucial relationship, the CIA earlier this year dispatched a very senior officer to be the new station chief who was previously the head of the European Division, one of the most important jobs in the National Clandestine Service, the agency’s spy arm.
The spy agencies have overcome lows before. During President George W. Bush’s first term, the ISI became enraged after it shared intelligence with the United States, only to learn that the then-CIA station chief passed that information to the British. The incident caused a serious row, one that threatened the CIA’s relationship with the ISI and deepened the levels of distrust between the two sides. At the time Pakistan almost threw the CIA station chief out of the country.

Re: Pakistan’s intelligence ready to split with CIA

Why do I not find it surprising? :halo:

The much much bigger question, however, for the ISI is not how many more Davises are out there but how many more Mishras and even Rahmatullahs are out there. Because while the former hold no historical grudge against Pakistan and are more interested in gathering intelligence about keeping their country safe from the scourge of terror, the latter two, who can slip into the country through the Afghan border and easily blend in with the population, have a more sinister agenda of destabilizing and possibly breaking Pakistan, a country whose very existence they might still not have come to terms with.

Re: Pakistan’s intelligence ready to split with CIA

read this to find out what Pakistan new about Raymond (and alike) way before he was captured…
http://rupeenews.com/?p=35639

this was published on 14th of feb, long before (almost a week) when american media started singing and admitting that he was Al-CIAda…

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

wait until new aid package approves.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

ISI has not given in to CIA/US's demands to just follow the orders over last decade regardless of the aid amount.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

^^ ISI supplies US Drones with target information.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

^ I think CIA was completely dependent upon ISI a few months back but during the past one year CIA has injected plenty of its operatives in Pakistan with the guise of diplomatic staff; and now they are finding their own targets (I believe that now even ISI doesnt know who the CIA is attacking) which the ISI is finding hard to digest...

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

anyways overall its a dramay baazi, we have the davis saga on the one side, and kayani is meeting the american army higher ups; and the drone strikes are taking place...

Re: Pakistan’s intelligence ready to split with CIA

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/20/AR2011022002975.html

Increased U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan killing few high-value militants

By Greg Miller
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 21, 2011; 12:07 AM

CIA drone attacks in Pakistan killed at least 581 militants last year, according to independent estimates. The number of those militants noteworthy enough to appear on a U.S. list of most-wanted terrorists: two

Despite a major escalation in the number of unmanned Predator strikes being carried out under the Obama administration, data from government and independent sources indicate that the number of high-ranking militants being killed as a result has either slipped or barely increased.

Even more generous counts - which indicate that the CIA killed as many as 13 “high-value targets” - suggest that the drone program is hitting senior operatives only a fraction of the time.

After a year in which the CIA carried out a record 118 drone strikes, costing more than $1 million apiece, the results have raised questions about the purpose and parameters of the campaign.

Senior Pakistani officials recently asked the Obama administration to put new restraints on a targeted-killing program that the government in Islamabad has secretly authorized for years.

The CIA is increasingly killing “mere foot soldiers,” a senior Pakistani official said, adding that the issue has come up in discussions in Washington involving President Asif Ali Zardari. The official said Pakistan has pressed the Americans “to find better targets, do it more sparingly and be a little less gung-ho.”

Experts who track the strikes closely said a program that began with intermittent lethal attacks on al-Qaeda leaders has evolved into a campaign that seems primarily focused on lower-level fighters. Peter Bergen, a director at the New America Foundation, said data on the strikes indicate that 94 percent of those killed are lower-level militants.

“I think it’s hard to make the case that the 94 percent cohort threaten the United States in some way,” Bergen said. “There’s been very little focus on that question from a human rights perspective. Targeted killings are about leaders - it shouldn’t be a blanket dispensation.”

Even former CIA officials who describe the drone program as essential said they have noted how infrequently they recognized the names of those killed during the barrage of strikes in the past year.

The CIA declined to comment on a program that the agency refuses to acknowledge publicly. But U.S. officials familiar with drone operations said the strikes are hitting important al-Qaeda operatives and are critical to keeping the United States safe.

“This effort has evolved because our intelligence has improved greatly over the years, and we’re able to identify not just senior terrorists, but also al-Qaeda foot soldiers who are planning attacks on our homeland and our troops in Afghanistan,” said a U.S. official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the classified program.

“We would be remiss if we didn’t go after people who have American blood on their hands,” the official said. “To use a military analogy, if you’re only going after the generals, you’re likely to be run over by tanks.”

The data about the drone strikes provide a blurry picture at best, because of the reliance on Pakistani media reports and anonymous accounts from U.S. government sources. There are also varying terms used to describe high-value targets, with no precise definitions.

Even so, the data suggest that the ratio of senior terrorism suspects being killed is declining at a substantial rate. The New America Foundation recently concluded that 12 “militant leaders” were killed by drone strikes in 2010, compared with 10 in 2008. The number of strikes soared over that period, from 33 to 118.

The National Counterterrorism Center, which tracks terrorist leaders who are captured or killed, counts two suspects on U.S. most-wanted lists who died in drone strikes last year. They are Sheik Saeed al-Masri, al-Qaeda’s No. 3, and Ahmed Mohammed Hamed Ali, who was indicted in the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa before serving as al-Qaeda’s chief of paramilitary operations in Afghanistan.

According to the NCTC, two senior operatives also were killed in drone strikes in each of the preceding years.

When the Predator was first armed, it was seen as a weapon uniquely suited to hunt the highest of high-value targets, including Osama bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri. For years, the program was relatively small in scale, with intermittent strikes.

U.S. officials cite multiple reasons for the change in scope, including a proliferation in the number of drones and CIA informants providing intelligence on potential targets. The unmanned aircraft have not gotten the agency any closer to bin Laden but are regarded as the most important tool for keeping pressure on al-Qaeda’s middle and upper ranks.

Officials cite other factors as well, including a shift in CIA targeting procedures, moving beyond the pursuit of specific individuals to militants who meet secret criteria the agency refers to as “pattern of life.”

In its early years, the drone campaign was mainly focused on finding and killing militants whose names appeared on a list maintained by the CIA’s Counterterrorist Center. But since 2008, the agency has increasingly fired missiles when it sees certain “signatures,” such as travel in or out of a known al-Qaeda compound or possession of explosives.

“It’s like watching ‘The Sopranos’: You know what’s going on in the Bada Bing,” said a former senior U.S. intelligence official, referring to the fictional New Jersey strip club used for Mafia meetings in the HBO television series.

Finally, CIA drone strikes that used to focus almost exclusively on al-Qaeda are increasingly spread across an array of militant groups, including Taliban networks responsible for plots against targets in the United States as well as attacks on troops in Afghanistan.

In recent weeks, the drone campaign has fallen strangely silent. The last reported strike occurred Jan. 23 south of the Pakistani city of Miram Shah, marking the longest pause in the program since vast areas of Pakistan were affected by floods last year. Speculation in that country has centered on the possibility that the CIA is holding fire until a U.S. security contractor accused of fatally shooting two Pakistani men last month is released from a jail in Lahore.

U.S. officials deny that has been a factor and describe the lull as a seasonal slowdown in a program expected to resume its accelerated pace.

The intensity of the strikes has caused an increase in the number of fatalities. The New America Foundation estimates that at least 607 people were killed in 2010, which would mean that a single year has accounted for nearly half of the number of deaths since 2004, when the program began.

Overall, the foundation estimates that 32 of those killed could be considered “militant leaders” of al-Qaeda or the Taliban, or about 2 percent.

The problem does not appear to be one of precision. Even as the number of strikes has soared, civilian casualty counts have dropped. The foundation estimates that the civilian fatality rate plunged from 25 percent in 2004 to 6 percent in 2010. The CIA thinks it has not killed a single civilian in six months.

Defenders of the program emphasize such statistics and say that empirical evidence suggests that the ramped-up targeting of lesser-known militants has helped to keep the United States safe.

The former high-ranking U.S. intelligence official said the drone campaign has degraded not only al-Qaeda’s leadership, but also the caliber of the organization’s plots.

Thwarted attacks traced back to Pakistan over the past two years - including a botched attempt to blow up a vehicle in New York’s Times Square - are strikingly amateurish compared with the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and other airline plots that followed, the argument goes.

“Pawns matter,” the former official said. “It’s always more dramatic to take the bishop, and, if you can find them, the king and queen.”

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

I am sure CIA has their operatives on the ground which ISI has no clue about. And those operatives dont have to come via diplomatic channels. they may be locals.
but at the same time i dont believe CIA can strike anywhere in Pak without informing ISI or having a very good reason for it. The day americans strike at will , ISI will make sure they dont get to strike again.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

Well what can ISI do to stop that; they cant throw thousands of operatives CIA has in Pakistan?

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

Well ISI has a whole bunch of media person on their payroll who make public opinion. ISI will create a public opinion against americans and since Pakistan has started using public opinion as a tool of foreign policy, it wont be hard to say no to america.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

and cia dont have whole bunch of media person on their payroll not in pakistan but also india and around the region. yeh my ass.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

^^ come on . you are telling me that american paid media persons can create a pro american wave in pakistan!
Not unless they pay $1000 to every pakistani.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

Do you think that american foreign policy is dependent upon pakistan public opinion?

if that was so they would have stopped drone attacks ages ago; as the government supports them but most of the public is against them (this policy is creating a lot of hatred for america); for americans its important to look after their own interests and not pakistan's public opinion...

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

^^ american foreign policy is not dependent upon anyones opinion, but it gives pakistan an excuse to say no to america. take raymond davis for example, if there was no public pressure then ray da would have been released in few hours.

i think whats stoping isi from doing so because of two reasons. their own policy matches with american and second is the AID may stop.

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

so? ISI has not given in the demands of abandoning support of factions in Afghanistan, ISI doesn't supply info on everyone US wants ;)

AID is not going to stop until US forces are in Afghanistan ;)

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

**True, ISI has its own agenda too. ISI has to look beyond American in a Post American Afghanistan.

**

I agree partially . Afthanistan or no afghanistan, AID will come to pakistan as long as america wants to keep pakistan in influence. infact after america is gone they will need pakistan more.

Re: Pakistan’s intelligence ready to split with CIA

Well it seems now reading the different account as if ISI has trapped raymond davis by cornering him to define new rules of engagement with CIA

http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/26/isi-cia-chiefs-discuss-davis-cooperation-issues.html

CIA chief phones ISI head; Davis, intelligence cooperation discussed DawnNews | DAWN.COM

ISLAMABAD: Head of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Leon Panetta phoned head of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Ahmed Shuja Pasha, DawnNews reported.

The two intelligence chiefs reportedly discussed the issue of CIA contractor Raymond Davis and the status of cooperation between the CIA and the ISI.

**Defence sources confirmed the conversation and said the ISI chief expressed his reservations over covert activities of CIA operatives during the talk with Panetta.

Sources said the ISI chief emphasised on Pakistan’s security and sovereignty during the conversation.**

Sources further said that the CIA will now be providing the ISI with complete records and data on all such operatives.

The CIA will also explain the procedures pertaining to the operatives’ activities, sources said.

When contacted, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) refused to confirm or negate the telephone conversation.

Earlier on Thursday, Pakistani intelligence officials said cooperation between the two intelligence agencies had been scaled back because of the Davis incident.

A senior official in Islamabad on Thursday said the Davis case had strained but not broken relations between the CIA and the ISI because the ISI didn’t know about Davis before he shot and killed two Pakistanis on January 27.

“It’s not business as usual; it’s not open war,” the official said. “Cooperation and operations together will continue at a lesser scale.”

Re: Pakistan's intelligence ready to split with CIA

From www.dawn.com

ISLAMABAD: The law enforcement agencies arrested 45 individuals for staying in constant contact with Raymond Davis, a CIA contractor who shot dead two Pakistanis in Lahore last month, DawnNews reported on Monday.