Pakistan's crappy laws...(sexual Offenses)

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Re: Pakistan’s crappy laws…(sexual Offenses)

the legal age for marriage in india 21 for male and 18 for girl

but muslims in india are fighting to change the law to decrease the age to 12 for girls:bummer:

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12*ankhain pharing*

woah!

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Re: Pakistan’s crappy laws…(sexual Offenses)

Please enlighten us by analysing the Hudood Laws in Islam vs Hudood Laws in Pakistan. You are not a scholar and have no authority over fiqh of any Islamic jurrsiprudence.

I cannot consider your inability to derive a solid conclusion based on logical analysis of these laws as having something wrong with these laws. You seem to be a frustrated kid to me, thats all.

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1 family is doing it, not the whole people, heck i can post all sorts of stories where people r marry animals and objects in india.

Manhus, Kaminay!
Manhus, Kaminay!
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o-m-g.....now that iz 1 messed up laww

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Re: Pakistan's crappy laws...(sexual Offenses)

The Sexual Offence law of Pakistan need radical improvement. Laws such as the above and rape laws are restrice upon the female, and advantageous for the male.

A woman can only prove rape, if 4 men witnessed the rape. BIZARRE or what?

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oh my gosh not just that, all the laws here are sooooooo creepy!
one of them is the whole woman can be 16 but men must be 18 for marriage! wow! freaky - i really hope these laws are revised! Also what about Rape! it doesnt apply when men rape thier wives! specially in a culture where woman are forced to marry!!! so its like once you marry your victim it legitimizes the ontinuous rape! oh my gosh! i read about htis happening back in the day i had no idea pakistan was still practicing this!!!

Oh and if you "enitce" etc a woman to be a prostitute you get punished for over 3 years - if you are a man you get whipped! what logic!

i dont know who wrote the laws but it needs some serious revisions - it totally violates international human rights standards

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That is still so creepy! why is it 21 for males? but 18 for women!!! it still makes no sense!!! i think it needs to be reduced for men for sure!
Also i think it should be noted that in india there is this huge movement of people aborting girl babies, i read about this somewhere…its so bad that now they literally have villages filled with men and no women! and initially the first response to that - atleast from me was…wow! thats totally unfair …i still think it is, but its also largely b/c there isnt a culture of social security and men are considered social security and women are not. so i think what needs to be addressed ultimately is this idea that women are weak and burdens on society and a family! i think when we realizet hat women are equally capable of helping hte family as men only then i tink things will change. otherwise ppl will abort girl babies or want to marry them off at early ages b/c they cant take care of them.

i think the 21 age for men, and 18 for women just goes to show the patriarichal nature of the society…i dont think its any better then 18 and 16 really!!

also, I also heard somewhere that due to racism the poverty in muslim areas is really bad and a lot of women end up in prostitution b/c families cant feed themselves, so i wonder if that has anything to do with the Muslim family wanting to marry their daughter off early before such things happen to them. though i am not sure about this, since i have only heard this, i hope that India is an open-minded society that is as true to its claims of diversity as it purports to be. Though i also keep hearing about hindu extremist parties having a lot of power in the country. I really hope they are not racist!

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either way najm why cant it be 18 and 18 for both?!

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Mr. **Najim **you're the one who needs to get an education, a law which contradicts is self is a foolish law made by fools and defended by fools.

Right get this:

I. Ages for legal purposes Age of simple majority[INDENT]Under clause (a) of S.2 of the offense of Zina Enforcement of Hudood Ordinance 1979, Adult/major means:
'a male person who has attained the age of eighteen (18) years or a female person who has attained the age of sixteen (16) years or has attained puberty.'

Age of consent for sexual activityThe age of consent for sexual activity is eighteen (18) years for males and sixteen (16) years for females

Age of consent for marriageThe age of consent for marriage is eighteen (18) for male and fourteen (14) years for females

[/INDENT]I have highlighted the parts in red the ones I want you to particularly look at. Firstly, we know its illegal and considered a crime against the sate if you have sex outside of marriage. So let me ask you who does the this law apply to: 'a male person who has attained the age of eighteen (18) years or a female person who has attained the age of sixteen (16) years or has attained puberty.' ?

Right now, you can marry a girl when she is 14, so let me get this straight if her husband has sex with her he will be braking the law? that doesn't make any sense at all. What is he supposed to do on the wedding night go for a walk in the park and then for two whole years is he supposed to look at her face? this law is ridiculous makes no sense at all. Now I want to bring another thing to your attention.

Now what is this supposed to mean:

Section 4 and 5 of the 'Offense of Zina (Enforcement of Hudood) Ordinance'[INDENT]'(4) Zina: A man and a woman are said to commit 'Zina' if they wilfully have sexual intercourse without being validly married to each other.
Explanation:
Penetration is sufficient to constitute the sexual intercourse necessary to the offense of 'Zina'.

(5) - 1) 'Zina' is liable to 'Hadd' if-[INDENT]a) it is committed by a man who is an adult and is not insane with a woman to whom he is not, and does not suspect himself to be married; or
b) it is committed by a woman who is an adult and is not insane with a man to whom she is not, and does not suspect herself to be married.

- 2) Whoever is guilty of 'Zina' liable to 'Hadd' shall, subject to the provisions of this Ordinance-a) if he or she is a 'Muhsan', be stoned to death at a public place ; or
b) if he or she is not a 'Muhsan', be punished, at a public place, with whipping numbering one hundred stripes.

*- 3) No punishment under sub-section (2) shall be executed until it has been confirmed by the Court to which an appeal from the order of conviction lies ; and if the punishment be of whipping, until it is confirmed and executed, the convict shall be dealt with in the same manner as if sentenced to simple imprisonment.' *

[/INDENT][/INDENT]I have highlighted the part in red. Now what is that supposed that seems to say to me, hay you can marry a girl at 14 have sex with her only if she is married to you. And then there is another law (one I showed you the first time) which contradicts this.

Now why not just make the age of consent of marriage for a girl 16 then it will remove this confusion.

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Re: Pakistan’s crappy laws…(sexual Offenses)

Frankly the way the Hadith are translated today I wouldn’t trust any Sharia Law. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Islamic Sharia is very dumb law today. A woman can be stoned to death for committing adultery but a man can get away with murder by paying blood money.

You being from Lahore, must have noticed all the prostitutes, if arrested by the police the claim to do muttah marriage. My issue is either allow muttah marriage for both Sunni Muslims or don’t allow it at all. Sunni have Nika Mysier which is similar to muttah marriage. Why not allow that? so men can have a temporary marriage with a woman (as short as even 2hrs) and have sex without committing Zina?

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Stomp,

Dont try to lecture me to study Law, for your information I am an LL.M from Liverpool John Moores University, I have written articles that has been pulished in different legal journals. By Profession I may be a Hard core IT guy who talks about Solaris or Linux kernals but my personal interest is in legal studies. So when it comes to English or Pakistani law I know well & enough to have a debate, but why with you who has just a pea sized brain.

I know where u come from and what are you trying to pin point, you are trying to put down everything that is from Pakistan or of Pakistan. From their legal system to ur muled terms like "lambardar".

If you have brain bigger than a pea then rather than putting things down, pick up the Pakistani law books, read Muhammad's marriage law of Pakistan, read CPC & PPC & then in the end read Hudood Ordinance & then come here talk about Hadood ordinance. Merely picking up three articles of one law book & debating on them shows how much law have u studied. Why do u think lawyers have their own libraries of legal books? why do they need to read 1000 books for one law suit? why dont they pick three lines & win cases?

Enough said. No more comments from me.

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Re: Pakistan’s crappy laws…(sexual Offenses)

Stomp,

I think Najim shares the same thoughts as I do about your thread. I regret to write that our knowledge is too limited and we stand nowhere when it comes to religious injunctions. I personally would rather keep quite than making myself look like a stupid since I don’t have enough knowledge about these laws, adequate to point a fault in them.

I do admit, there can be shortcomings, and I am open to learn about them but no malicious intent to demean Islam, Pakistan of anything related directly, indirectly, Implicitly or explicitly to them.

However, your comments are nothing but a display of childish thinking.

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Re: Pakistan's crappy laws...(sexual Offenses)

Please give me a break! this is a public form to discuss topics. Furthermore, I have seen cases won in court over a string of words. There is a clear contradiction here.

A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the
possibility of another. Why are you being so foolish and defending this dumb law of Pakistan. Pakistan should be a secular nation, not an Islamicfied nation. We don't need these inconsistent laws.

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uhh stomp…waz up with ur signature?..“suddenly ur in bed with a RELATIVE”:eek:…:confused:

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Re: Pakistan's crappy laws...(sexual Offenses)

*ASA Guys, Just a few things to say Stomp for a guy who studies Law you seem to be very ineffectual when it comes down to spelling also you seem to also contradict yourself when it comes down to discussing the Laws. With regards to Muttah marriage and Nika Mysier I personally feel both are against the basis of Islam. *

Even though I study Comparative Theology and Philosophy with the large emphasis on Islam I sincerely believe it is against the grains of Islam and humantiy to treat women in this way. Islam does not allow prostitut*ion and don't even go there with Muttah marriage or Nika Mysier unless you are really a typical backwards Pakistani Male. Get your head out of those cheating and backward Laws of some cretin Pakistani Lawyers who don't give a dam about anyone but themselves. *

*Think how would you feel if anyone of your women folk where treated like this? We need to Wake up and bring the Islam forward and to do that we need to educate and help our Women and not Slave and Impoverish them.
*

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Re: Pakistan's crappy laws...(sexual Offenses)

This is what I found to be most peculiar

'If any person having custody, charge or care of any girl under the age of sixteen (16) years causes or encourages or abets the seduction or prostitution of that girl, he shall be **published* with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to three years, and with a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees and if the person convicted is a male, shall also be liable to whipping.'*

So is that the way to get a publishing contract in Pakistan?

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Lol nice typo!

Anyway even with regards to punishment and threat of imprisonment there are ways of getting out of this.

Depending on the situation, if the girl claims she was forced into prostitution by a male, then she has to bring two reliable witnesses. Or the case based on Islamic Sharia would be thrown out of court.

Another way is by getting caught in illicit sex with an under age girl. Again there is a way of getting out of this by claiming Muttah of mysier marriage. As Islamically speaking you can wed a girl when she has attained puberty.

Furthermore, this is with respect to a girl who is under 16. Majority of the prostitutes in Pakistan are 16 or over. And then its extremely simple to get out of a prison sentence by claiming misyer marriage. This is constantly what happens in Saudi Arabia, and Egypt! In Iran you would claim Muttah marriage. In Iran you can marry a girl at the age of 9. In fact the Iranian Council of Guardians encourages this.

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Your opinion doesn’t mean diddily squat! there are fatwas which state mysier marriage is permissible in Islam.

Here is link to one fatwa: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544160

The ruling of the scholars should be accepted!

Esix ko maro thread
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So here we are with another Muslim who decides that just because the Scholars are right you can not think for yourself? Also what a clever way to come back diddly squat. Listen Stomp think for yourself and do not follow blindly.