Pakistanis love for sharia but?

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

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Originally Posted by phoenixdesi http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
Jamaat e Islami which with all its faults is the most democratic, clean and upright islamist party in pakistan with a very clear narrative on how to implement shariah"

kaya khoobsurat language hai aap kee…

anyway, hatred for someone is one thing and judging someone on merit is something else. just like you i am not a big fan of JI at all but yes, it is by far the most democratic party where every new amir is selected purely based on elections and not on family connections. moddodi, mian tufail, qazi hussain, munawar hassan all came through proper elections. not even one amir has been selected who was son of one of the ex-amir. now compare it to PMLN, PPP, ANP and MQM and you will understand it better

and yes most of its members dont have corruption scandals and in comparison to molana fazul rehman type mullahs, JI is far more cleaner islamist party and yes they want to implement sharia.

that being said, i dont want them to come to the power but my question was in context of Pakistani public wanting sharia but then abandoning the most clean available muslim prty JI again and again and was questioning the disconnect.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

I think, Muslims generally are in favor of anything associated with Islam. Its a bit of a loaded question. Of course any pious Muslim would say he/she supports Sharia. no one would ever say they are against something that is so central to the faith.

That being said, how we interpret Sharia law, and what it means to us varies... Many Pakistanis and Muslims generally support sharia in principle, but differ broadly on whether it should be, and how it should be implemented.

It would be more telling if they asked more specific questions regarding Sharia. For example, not many people would support amputation for theft, or stoning etc.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

why not? these punishments are part of islamic sharia and again to your point, muslims consider it to be their responsibility to believe in what sharia says. do you really think that pakistani muslims would say that stoning to death, or beheading or cutting hands are barbaric steps, so please stay away from them? no way. they would consider such thoughts to be blasphemous ruining purity of their islam. yes there will be some exceptions like you but majority would say yes to these punishments.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

i think the issue is that we muslims have an ultimate belief in superiority of our religion and ideology. PERIOD. that is THE cornerstone of our ideology. in our minds, islam is the final and the only truthful religion and hence there is not much flexibility in that matter.

second, while other religions have moved on to accept that religion is a personal avenue for spiritual rejuvenation only and not a way of life, we Muslims on the the other hand have mixed religion into everything based on the premises "islam is a way of life"...

on top, we stopped any reformation via ijtihad, ijmah and qayas since 12th century, so for all practical reasons, islam is not line with 21st century and it clashes with many practical realities of today's life and muslims are therefore just stuck in between. had we reformed sharia throughout, it may have evolved into a practical framework to lead your life but alas we didnt and now we are totally lost and confused.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

i think Sharia means a lot of things for a lot of people. Everyone who calls himself a Muslim will, perhaps just for appearance sake, acknowledge the supremacy of "Sharia" in a broad sense when put on the spot. But what Sharia means specifically, how it applies to each persons life and and how significant it is to that person differs ( according to the individual temperament, culture, the issues that are important to them etc ).

The flexibility arises in the fact that we are all free to interpret things in our own way. And we all do that, regardless of how much we deny it. Im sure that all Muslims in their personal capacity, interpret the faith for themselves on some level. So they give certain aspects of Sharia more significance and importance over other things... For example, punishment for a crime in general is more important then the nature of the punishment. We punish a thief or a murderer, but we dont have to amputate a limb or a head.

If most people wanted sharia to be implemented in its most strictest and literal sense, then the jamat islami would win every election hands down, Swat residents would be demanding fazullullah return, there wouldn't be any secular or center right muslim country, they would all be saudi.
Bottom line, the relationship between individuals and their faith is a complex yhing. You can't simply pigeon hole everyone by saying if your muslim u must belive A or B.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

It's not as simple as stoning or cutting hands off for stealing.

You can't islamically, yes even islamically, cut off a thief's hands if he stole. 99 percent of petty theft in Pakistan is due to hunger. So are we going to cut off every low-income person who picks up a mango and stuffs it in her bag on her way home ? That's the sharia you want because that's how these animals will implement it. They will dismiss the other 99 percent of the religion that calls for fair trial and looking into the intention of things.

JI has supported unislamic laws like hudood ordinance where the crime of rape and the crime of adultery has been conveniently confused. The application of 4 witnesses to an adulteress, which would actually minimize stoning of adulterers to pretty much zero cases a year, gets applied to a rape victim.

They've already had plenty of chances to show that they can apply sharia responsibly and they've failed.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

Another sign that they don't know sharia from their behinds is that they stood aside and said nothing as Taliban committed one atrocity after another. That's not the Islam I want sorry, getting whipped in public for taking to a guy at work. So glad sharia doesn't exist and I say that as a Muslim:

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

just look at the confusion on this forum...so looks like you want sharia as long as it is implemented responsibly?

so now we are getting into tough topic of interpretation of sharia and whatnot. whereas the question was simple.

would you prefer man-made laws conceptualized, legalized and institutionalized by an elected assembly and supreme court of Pakistan with no reference to any religion whatsoever..laws which can be updated in the assembly given the needs of my countrymen anytime with no perpetual eternity attached to them

or
do you want sharia laws? once you say yes to sharia laws, we can then get to the debate of interpretation.

as far as I am concerned, I am saying NO to any sharia whatsoever. I do not want any religion to decide state affairs. Simple as that. I want a complete secular constitution with no reference to any religion. relgion, as i see it, needs to be for spiritual rejuvenation and limited to a personal framework.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

I want Shariah, but MY kind of Shariah which benefits me and declares all who oppose my version as misguided or non Muslim.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

phoenixdesi Baha Sahib Sharia or portions of Sharia Law are being practiced and Championed by many Nations on this Globe where it suites them.......

a very good example is the founding fathers of United States felt at the time to write the the first amendment:

**Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.**

at the time this amendment was written, No religion on Earth except Islam had this guidance for mankind:

La Iqrah fideen! There shall be No Compulsion in relegion

Even President George Bush quoted this verse of the Holy Quran!

Most Non Muslim countries practice this portion of Sharia, Yet Muslim Countries ignore it and do not put it into practice!

and if a poll were taken today More than 99% of Americans will support the Ist Amendment

except the Buffoon Donald Trump

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

guzarish yae hai kay I am also alhamdolliah a muslim and i also want a society being run on Islamic principles but one thing has become crystal clear that there is no way muslims can ever ever ever ever ever agree to a mutually acceptable sharia. As a matter of fact, sharia implementation divides muslims even more as differing interpretations by different sects enhance animosity among muslims.

it is therefore important to have a secular Constitution which is not biased by any one sect or one religion and we can still remain muslims and follow our sects for spiritual rejuvenation.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

What is so unislamic about current Pakistani laws anyway?

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

My vote would be for separation of church and state. Many of the laws in western countries are on the same page as sharia. Its not like sharia and secular laws are entirely opposite to each other. If there are any secular laws that are absolutely contradictory to sharia, then a reasonable middle ground should be sought after in law creation.
For example, issues of gay marriage. I would be ok with having laws that provided same level of benefits to such couples without necessarily diluting the definition of marriage (man and woman).

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

What makes me surprised about these "Sharia-mongers" is that the laws they support in Pakistan are totally unIslamic and unethical. ex. Hudood Ordinance, and the recent laws on child marriage, protests against the registration and monitoring of madrassas, etc.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

Oh and banning music and not only just a soft ban, but literally putting the lives of musicians in mortal danger - when Rasulullah (SAW) took Aisha (R) to watch performers of the fine arts of their time, and when Prophet David played the flute? And not to mention that thou shalt not murder? But these animals want to murder you if you play an instrument?

Putting the lives in danger of women running salon services for women's beautification and threading?

Like wth? What type of sharia is this?? Even in Saudia Arabia, a woman can get salon services. Even there.

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Re: Pakistanis love for sharia but?

So, when you see these maulvis who demand sharia law showing a pattern of violence and oppression, then no...no one wants their sharia. Doesn't mean muslims do not believe in the concept of Islam as providing just laws, it's just that we don't think these maulvis have an proton's worth of knowledge in their brains of what any of it even means.