Actually this question came to my mind as kal I had the pleasure of meeting a buzurg originally from Allahabad, India and I noticed that he spoke very nafees Urdu and used the words, “array” and “miyaaN” a lot more than Pakistani Urdu speakers. Plus his accent was slightly different. Anyway he was so lovable and a buzurg with a beautiful white beard as white as snow and he had the red-stained lips of a paan eater. (He is a true aashiq e Rasool; despite his old age and ill health he insisted on taking part in the milad e Nabi sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam jaloos)
Also a prof. of south asian languages at SOAS has written a book about the differences between Urdu and Hindi/Hindustani since partition–it is v. fascinating. He says the biggest noticable difference is that speakers of Urdu from Pakistan tend to use highly Persianised Urdu whereas Hindi now has many more Sanskriti words than when India was one country.
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
2b,
There is a great deal of difference between what Asif is referring to as nafees urdu and the hyderabadi dialect that you are using...
[/quote]
Yes, I agree with you Muzna, I was being a bit too flippant. Kaash may apni urdu ki klaas may aur dil laga kay padhta, to shayad mai bhee yeh nafees urdu seekh laita. However, with my nanial from Agra and dadial from Hayderabad (Deccan), I am nothing but a failure in this regard :)
Anyway, what I find quite interesting is the comment in Asif’s post when the writer says, ‘Pakistan tend to use highly Persianised Urdu’. But isn’t Urdu derived from Persian? (Please do correct me if I am wrong, as my Urdu history may not be up to scratch).
Another interesting point that is mentioned in Asif’s post is that the buzurg from Allahabad used the words, "array" and "miyaan" a lot more than Pakistani Urdu speakers?. However, if you look at Pakistan, it consists of NWFP, Punjab, Balochistan and Sindh (again correct me if I have missed out any other province – maybe I should have also concentrated in my Masherti Aloom as well as Geography classes :)). These areas are not really renowned for their nafees urdu (or are they?). The so called nafees urdu, as I understand it, had been brought to Pakistan region by the migrants from India. Hence, I fail to understand (or probably fail to appreciate) the buzurg’s comment.
2b bhai,
**
Qibla baydoon i shaq o bila kayf bunyaad i zabaan Urdu az zabaan-haa-ye Farsi o Hindi hai walay bandah ka nuqta yeh tha ki qabl az tafreeq -i -bar-e-sagheer, aan zabaan ke dar keeshwar i hind-e-mutahhida bar lisaan i aam o khaas thii, az aabaan e Urdu e haalan basyaar mukhtallif thii. Aur awwaleen i wajjah i een yehi hai ke bad az azaadi Pakistan mein ahle zabaan va hukumraanaan ka yeh mutaffiq faislah tha ke aan tumaam ilfaaz zabaan e Urdu se nikaalay jain jo ke hindi-al-asl thay aur unko az ilfaazahaaye Farsi o Arabi se muntaqil kiya jaaye
See? The above is a typical example of hyper-Persianised Urdu!!
Haan Urdu is derived from Farsi but the trend in Pakistan has been to replace as many of the Hindi words with Farsi (or Arabic) ones instead…esp. in WRITTEN Urdu.
e.g. haraa with sabz
khirkee with dareecha
baal with moo’/gesuu/zulf
lamba qad with daraaz qaamat
din with roz
etc. etc. I have even read ‘qay karna’ being used instead of ulTi karna!! (qay is the Arabic for ulTi)
paa instead of paoN
shaanay instead of kandhay
seemeen instead of chandni
etc.
You know the famous story of the villagers who went to visit a scholar in the city and he asked them, “imsaal qatr o imtaar se kashtkaari kaysee huwee?”
they thought he was reciting Qur’an when he was asking this year how was the harvest with the rain?!!!
Haan most regions of Pakistan might not be noted for their classical Urdu but it IS spoken a lot and my point was it is spoken differently even by the migrants from India
I love Urdu because I grew up in Allahabad, and my dad was very good in Urdu and Farsi.
I am no scholar of Urdu. I know English better than Urdu and I am fond of English too. It would be a sad day if England and America decided to remove all the foreign words from English. The strength of a language is its rich heritage.
I didnt realize that in Pakistan they are trying to remove the Hindi words. "Hatred ki bhee hud hoti hai"
If Mirza Ghalib heard this he will really turn in his grave.
"Urdu hai jiska naam hum jaante hain Daag
Saare jehan main dhoom humari zubaan ki hai"
Hyderabad was the most southerly place in the Indian sub-continent where Urdu was spoken, and the urdu accent and colloquialisms there are different from the Urdu spoken in Pakistan.
My parents, having spoken Hyderabadi Urdu at home but also having learned Pakistani Urdu at school, can tell the difference easily… but as I never had any Urdu lessons at school I only know the Hyderabadi version - which can sometime get frustrating because people sometimes think I’m making up words and/or getting my grammar wrong… whereas I’m actually just speaking Urdu like a Hyderabadi!!!