Because Pak armed forces eat up over 3/4th of the national budget, how can other areas be developed? Pakistani Army is a bunch of corrupt egomaniacs who would never want to see Pakistan develop. Our sweat money is paid to them to protect us from external aggression, and not rule over us. Look what they did recently in FATA. These morons will not hesitate to kill civilians if someone pays them their price. Remember what they did to Bangladeshis? What makes you think that Sindhis or Baluchis will not be next?
Madahnee, you anti-punjabi racist you. Balochis have already seen how it feels to be bombed by their own countries air force.
Rajput, when I say the word punjabi, I don't mean ethnically punjabi, I mean of the mentallity that is found anong many of rulers that come from punjab, whether they be kashmiri or mohajir, they belong to the same rulling class.
But punjabi favoritism is a real life symptom, but does not mean all punjabis are involved.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Because Pak armed forces eat up over 3/4th of the national budget, how can other areas be developed? Pakistani Army is a bunch of corrupt egomaniacs who would never want to see Pakistan develop. Our sweat money is paid to them to protect us from external aggression, and not rule over us. Look what they did recently in FATA. These morons will not hesitate to kill civilians if someone pays them their price. Remember what they did to Bangladeshis? What makes you think that Sindhis or Baluchis will not be next?
[/QUOTE]
What the hell are you on about? Do you even know yourself? Why dont you read up on history before opening your mouth and citing history and what pakistan did in its past. Why do you ****ing iditos always look to the past. Its the 21st centuary yet you are among those people who would like to live in caves.
Listen-Up OK!!! Your not the only pakistani paying taxes ok!!! SO am i and a 147 million others. And most of the like the Armed Forces.
As for what happened in Wana and FATA. They deserved it!! God damnit they live in Pakistan and yet the side with terrorists and shout anti-pakistani solgans. IF they were innocent then this would not have happened. Yes civillians died but that happens in military operations, and how can we be sure all those civillians killed were killed by PAk army alone???
And dont forget that this week alone 500 Iraqi's lost thier lives in Falluja Fighting with the US forces. !!
When both sides shoot, someone's gotta die. and if they were innocent why did the open fire on the Pakistani troops entering the area?
I have been a critic of Gen.Musharraf and the increasing corruption in our armed forces, but we need to be factual.
Madahnee → Your claim that defence is “three fourths” of the budget is nonsense. At most it is 20 - 25 % based on a Asian Development Bank report published in 2003.
Speak with facts or don’t speak at all. 
70% of pakistan's taxes come from karachi. But most of the money that is going into the pockets of the generals are the huge loans by world bacnk and IMF. Without wich the pakistan army junta would not exist.
Rajput:
**
Pakistani Armed forces are the only thing stopping anti-state elements from causing trouble or possibly seceding from Pakistan. The Armed forces recruit in all provinces, if the response is greater in Punjab, you cannot blame us for it.
**
Anti-state elements exist because of the army and it's usupring of the people's process of democracy and subjugation of dissent. Army has never represented all of the people of pakistan, so when it rules, it means only a select elite of pakistan gets any say in the future of pakistan. ISI has constantly created the kings party to "guide" the elections into its arms. These are all known facts. The army is more corrupt then all the politicians, its just much of this corruption was instituionalized by the british officer class for the exploitationj of the natives. The same happening now, but the brits have been replaced by brown sahbis, majority of whom are from the elite of punjab. And please don't tell me other provinces don't want to send people into the army. The problem is, that punjabis are a majority and it is very hard to break into the upper officer class of the army, especially for someone living in an impovirished village in sindh or slum in karachi. And why are people so poor in southern parts of pakistan, whereas the army belt is so much better of in terms of poverty levels? Just an act of God or the reason why so many of you lvoe the army?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Madahnee, you anti-punjabi racist you. Balochis have already seen how it feels to be bombed by their own countries air force.
[/QUOTE]
At the behest of a DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader, conveniently forgot that eh?
That argument is completely baseless and full of BS. Punjab is a province, an ethnicity, a language…where do you see a “mentality.” Even if take that fallacy to its conclusion: Considering the fact that there are Punjabis on the Eastern Side, would you call their mentality “Punjabi”?
are you seriously losing it? You have gone from attacking an entire group of people to attacking their “mentality.” Hey I can say a lot of things about YOU, but I wouldn’t bias myself against your people. I really hope that you see the light of day, because it is pretty evident that you have gone off the edge.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Rajput:
*
Pakistani Armed forces are the only thing stopping anti-state elements from causing trouble or possibly seceding from Pakistan. The Armed forces recruit in all provinces, if the response is greater in Punjab, you cannot blame us for it.
**
Anti-state elements exist because of the army and it's usupring of the people's process of democracy and subjugation of dissent. Army has never represented all of the people of pakistan, so when it rules, it means only a select elite of pakistan gets any say in the future of pakistan. ISI has constantly created the kings party to "guide" the elections into its arms. These are all known facts. The army is more corrupt then all the politicians, its just much of this corruption was instituionalized by the british officer class for the exploitationj of the natives. The same happening now, but the brits have been replaced by brown sahbis, majority of whom are from the elite of punjab. And please don't tell me other provinces don't want to send people into the army. The problem is, that punjabis are a majority and it is very hard to break into the upper officer class of the army, especially for someone living in an impovirished village in sindh or slum in karachi. And why are people so poor in southern parts of pakistan, whereas the army belt is so much better of in terms of poverty levels? Just an act of God or the reason why so many of you lvoe the army?
[/QUOTE]
Do you really expect me to believe that the Pakistani Armed forces are against the state, when they are protecting it from the anti state elements? You can argue over military intervention in govt is justified or not, but go ahead and tell the families who children, brothers died protecting Pakistan..That is just shameless.
As for the ethnic composition of the Armed forces, I am glad that they have not published ethnicities and percentages. Although the military is recruited heavily from Northern Punjab it doesn't mean that a talented young person from another province or ethnicity cannot join. The reason for the North. based recruiting are historical and family tradition based, but they do not signify outright racism, like you claim. I would suggest that you look at the current officer class from the President on down...when you realize your mistake, atleast own up to it.
The North has many more industries and trade. In Karachi it was the same ethnic violence (that you promote) that destroyed the economic base. Southern Pakistan has been underdeveloped because of the feudal system. If you compare North Punjab to Southern Punjab, you can see the difference with the feudals dominating in the south. In comparison, the North has greater freedoms. Sindh and Baluchistan need to come out the system of implicit slavery before true development can occur. Is it any surprise that Urban Sindh became more developed? Blaming the military or the government for all the ills is foolish.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Defending ones country is supposed to be what the army does. It is nothing special, even if India is a larger country. My point remains, Pakistan army has not won any war but its supporters talk like they have beaten every army since the time of Ceaser. Instead pakistan army surrendered against india in the most humiliating defeat any coutnry could ever face. No one wants to talk about why that happened. Have some prespective over the role of the army.
[/QUOTE]
you chat some top quality bakwaas, we hope u no that.
Very Well Said, Raj.. Good One!
15 April 2004
MR. HARIS ZUBERI:
Thank you for your encouraging remarks.
MR. IMDAD ALI
You question how wars Pakistan Army has won. I would say, what you and people like you want to listen, Nil. But at the same time I will say Pakistan Army was never defeated by India. Due to limit of space I can not fully describe myself. In brief. Today definition and customs have changed. Before son used to smoke outside the house, today father brings form abroad cigarretes for son. Today bombing civilian villagers and “conquering” the other country has got the defintion “freeing the cirizens”.
In my old age there used to be street loofers/goondas like heavy wrestler bulls. But they always faught with equals. Bravey was considered with equals. Since ancien times if at any time a weak stood, just took courage to stand eye to eye against the brave loofer, it was termed as “shame and defeat” to the brave loofer even without fight. A weak’s standing with courage under universal morality (leave US todays dictinaries) was success of the weak and defeat of the big wrestler. India it is well known (not in todays being evised history) at the independence in 1947 India had a thought new country will die automatically in a year or so due to all types of hardships. But country is standing there. In all the wars India could not bow Pakistani armys legs nor could Pakistan army or nation bowed down. It is defeat of 6 times bigger against 1/6th weak army. You may agree it or not. I have read when in Indian Parliament it was stated that India kept its forces on borders for 8 months, the longest period in world history as words were used in the Indian parlimanet, but could not make even a dent in Pakistan army and had to pull back forces after so much national waste. What are these remarks in Indian parliament? The defeat of India.
KARGIL:
Reference to Kargil has been given and is often given. Some of “our” paid columnists and politicians so much talk about Kargil criticising army etc. I do not know big things. As a common man I do remember one thing that when a question was raised to the then US President Bill Clinton on CNN he confirmed “Yes, during Nawaz Sharif visit to US we asked him to pull back from Indian terrority at Kargil”. Why should US ask Nawaz to take back its army? And form where? Naturall from some place where army had reached or gone? And where it went? Taking and snatching from Indian army” And when a land is snatched what does it mean? Taken from the other. It is as simple a child can understand.
I also remember having myself read the words of Indian Defence Minister after all this Nawaz-Clinton pull out from kargil saying “Pakistanis still are there are we cannot push them back”. These words are for those who are “honest” to themselves.
PAKISTANI:
One has commented that what I wrote is what Indians wish to be written and no Pakistani would write against. I am a true Pakistani. I may be dishonest in my personal life but as far as Pakistan is concerned I am hundred percent true Pakistani. I lived 17 years abroad and not a single Rupee item I have taken to Pakistan which is not allowed (may be foolishly) or have ever tried to smuggle out without payment of duty. I love my counry, my army, my government. I belong to that school of thought which has faith on Islamic teachings that respect and obey government of the time.
How much I am true Pakistani despite not wishing to publicise my “Pakistaniant” I perforce quote my personal. I am working abroad. I am now 58 and I am during this year any time would be retired. Hundreds of this age have been sent back. Only I have been left and I am mentally prepared myself for my retirement. I have no house of my own or property or any bank balance in Pakistan. I am just on a clerical level. But I am working with a Minister who is the authority for granting nationality. My wife and children had long insisted me to get foreign nationality as living here abraod is quite comfortable, air conditioned, pure food, peace etc. My own department gives nationality to others, but till today I have not applied for nationality because Pakistan is my home I want to be buried there. Now on my retirement my 16/17 years due in present day investment schemes in Pakistan where banking profit is Paisa 50 per year I would hadly get a Rs. 2000 to R. 3000/- profit in National Savings. Had I applied nationality on getting my working country nationality at this age I would had been entitled for approx. Rs. 55,000 a month pension. But my Pakistan is my home land I wish on retirement go back to my country where there are my parents, brothers sisters and “peace of mind”.
Yes, I live in Karachi. Seeing army truck on roads of Laloo Khait I feel myself safe from “Bhata” and I pray for those Army Jawanz standing there but at the same time I wish they were not there and they would had been there where their profession needs them to be present. It is similar I am an office worker but when sometime occassionally I am go for 5/7 hours outside on office I feel discomfort likewise I wish these Jawans are there at their original place of duty where they are comformtable in their own natural atmosphere. I know very well if a professional doctor is posted to handle sale of a supermarket, he may well better manage supermarket affairs but nevertheless it is a fact it would adversely affect his professional medical abilities and at a time of any crisis it may take a time to come back and settled to his original.
I am not highly educated hence I cannot and express as beautifully in this Forum. Hence my intability to express properly but a wise reader can well understand my sentiments. I hate India. I do not hate general people living in India or Indian people living around me Hindus, Muslims Sikhs as most of these are human being and good but I hate India as a State and enemy of Pakistan and Muslims. Here abroad my air conditioners and refrigerator is every year overhauled by an Indian Sikh shop keeper, my next colleague is a Hindu and just 10 minutes before a Christian friend was having a cup with me and I was also drinking tea with his taking biscuits from same plate.
GENERA’s LOOTING
It has most been said that Generals have looted. How many are such Generals? May be one or two percent? But point is are these Generals not Pakisanis and amongst we the general soceity? Why we expect Generals to be from some other God? These alleged corrupt generals are fathers sons husbands from our own families. If we the general soceity is corrupt why then strange if any armyman is? If leaders, bureaucrats, general public whereever is possible can loot then why not any army man? Are they not from amongst us. According to a news item one Overseas Pakistani M. Javed informed with some documents to a Minister about purchase of OPF Office in Karachi showing residential building as commercial building and now NAB has started investigation. Naturally some corrupt bureaucrats did it. So why if any arm person do the same – if something such irregularity has been done in the army it is just fractions towhat bureaucrats, leaders have come. How much electricity is being stolen by we the common people. Just see Jackobad area, New Karachi, Jehrangir road in Karachi you will see nakedly thousands of Kunda on electricty main line. All these illegal users are we the common men so if we can do all illegals where our “courage” permits us why raising fingers in any uniformed person did. How many of us particularly coming form middle east have illegally purhcased Pakistani cash in our pockets against prescribed rule. We do this because we can do this illegal which act also is a corruption then why crying over army.
Read. Weep.
http://www.newleftreview.net/NLR25301.shtml
THE COLOUR KHAKI
Now each day is fair and balmy,
Everywhere you look, the army.
Ustad Daman (1959)
On 19 September 2001, General Pervaiz Musharraf went on TV to inform the people of Pakistan that their country would be standing shoulder to shoulder with the United States in its bombardment of Afghanistan. Visibly pale, blinking and sweating, he looked like a man who had just signed his own death warrant. The installation of the Taliban regime in Kabul had been the Pakistan Army’s only foreign-policy success. In 1978, the US had famously turned to the country’s military dictator General Zia-ul-Haq when it needed a proxy to manage its jihad against the radical pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan. In what followed, the Pakistan Inter-Services Intelligence became an army within an army, with much of its budget supplied directly from Washington. It was the ISI that supervised the Taliban’s sweep to power during Benazir Bhutto’s premiership of the mid-nineties; that controlled the infiltration of skilled saboteurs and assassins into Indian-held Kashmir; and that maintained a direct connexion with Osama bin Laden. Zia’s successors could congratulate themselves that their new province in the north-west almost made up for the defection of Bangladesh in 1971.
Imdad I have advice for ya.... "SHUTUP" you have made enough "you know what" of yourself.... I think you must leave Pak and go live in India a nice place called Gujarat.... After all its a democracy, right..... May be then you should ask one democraZy to help another save its ass in Iraq.... Sounds like a plan.... what ya think....
:k:
Take his advice Imad, Guess who this is?
REPLIES TO COMMENTS
ADDITION:
ADMINISTRATOR advice to give “source” witin 72 hours. I do not have much knowledge of computer except that I am a typist on computer without any proper knowledge of computer. From “source” I understand it is that from where I took theme of my post namely from any newspaper, from any article, from any book etc. I may with respect say what I posted above is my own feelings and my own story and I did not steal idea from elsewhere hence my apologies I am unable to produce the “source”.
Secondly I wonder if on this discussion forum only those points can be discussed which are taken from elsewhere (from source) and no original topic can be discussed.
MR. HARIS ZUBERI:
Thank you for your encouraging remarks.
MR. IMDAD ALI
You question how wars Pakistan Army has won. I would say, what you and people like you want to listen, Nil. But at the same time I will say Pakistan Army was never defeated by India. Due to limit of space I can not fully describe myself. In brief. Today definition and customs have changed. Before son used to smoke outside the house, today father brings form abroad cigarretes for son. Today bombing civilian villagers and “conquering” the other country has got the defintion “freeing the cirizens”.
In my old age there used to be street loofers/goondas like heavy wrestler bulls. But they always faught with equals. Bravey was considered with equals. Since ancien times if at any time a weak stood, just took courage to stand eye to eye against the brave loofer, it was termed as “shame and defeat” to the brave loofer even without fight. A weak’s standing with courage under universal morality (leave US todays dictinaries) was success of the weak and defeat of the big wrestler. India it is well known (not in todays being evised history) at the independence in 1947 India had a thought new country will die automatically in a year or so due to all types of hardships. But country is standing there. In all the wars India could not bow Pakistani armys legs nor could Pakistan army or nation bowed down. It is defeat of 6 times bigger against 1/6th weak army. You may agree it or not. I have read when in Indian Parliament it was stated that India kept its forces on borders for 8 months, the longest period in world history as words were used in the Indian parlimanet, but could not make even a dent in Pakistan army and had to pull back forces after so much national waste. What are these remarks in Indian parliament? The defeat of India.
KARGIL:
Reference to Kargil has been given and is often given. Some of “our” paid columnists and politicians so much talk about Kargil criticising army etc. I do not know big things. As a common man I do remember one thing that when a question was raised to the then US President Bill Clinton on CNN he confirmed “Yes, during Nawaz Sharif visit to US we asked him to pull back from Indian terrority at Kargil”. Why should US ask Nawaz to take back its army? And form where? Naturall from some place where army had reached or gone? And where it went? Taking and snatching from Indian army” And when a land is snatched what does it mean? Taken from the other. It is as simple a child can understand.
I also remember having myself read the words of Indian Defence Minister after all this Nawaz-Clinton pull out from kargil saying “Pakistanis still are there are we cannot push them back”. These words are for those who are “honest” to themselves.
PAKISTANI:
One has commented that what I wrote is what Indians wish to be written and no Pakistani would write against. I am a true Pakistani. I may be dishonest in my personal life but as far as Pakistan is concerned I am hundred percent true Pakistani. I lived 17 years abroad and not a single Rupee item I have taken to Pakistan which is not allowed (may be foolishly) or have ever tried to smuggle out without payment of duty. I love my counry, my army, my government. I belong to that school of thought which has faith on Islamic teachings that respect and obey government of the time.
How much I am true Pakistani despite not wishing to publicise my “Pakistaniant” I perforce quote my personal. I am working abroad. I am now 58 and I am during this year any time would be retired. Hundreds of this age have been sent back. Only I have been left and I am mentally prepared myself for my retirement. I have no house of my own or property or any bank balance in Pakistan. I am just on a clerical level. But I am working with a Minister who is the authority for granting nationality. My wife and children had long insisted me to get foreign nationality as living here abraod is quite comfortable, air conditioned, pure food, peace etc. My own department gives nationality to others, but till today I have not applied for nationality because Pakistan is my home I want to be buried there. Now on my retirement my 16/17 years due in present day investment schemes in Pakistan where banking profit is Paisa 50 per year I would hadly get a Rs. 2000 to R. 3000/- profit in National Savings. Had I applied nationality on getting my working country nationality at this age I would had been entitled for approx. Rs. 55,000 a month pension. But my Pakistan is my home land I wish on retirement go back to my country where there are my parents, brothers sisters and “peace of mind”.
Yes, I live in Karachi. Seeing army truck on roads of Laloo Khait I feel myself safe from “Bhata” and I pray for those Army Jawanz standing there but at the same time I wish they were not there and they would had been there where their profession needs them to be present. It is similar I am an office worker but when sometime occassionally I am go for 5/7 hours outside on office I feel discomfort likewise I wish these Jawans are there at their original place of duty where they are comformtable in their own natural atmosphere. I know very well if a professional doctor is posted to handle sale of a supermarket, he may well better manage supermarket affairs but nevertheless it is a fact it would adversely affect his professional medical abilities and at a time of any crisis it may take a time to come back and settled to his original.
I am not highly educated hence I cannot and express as beautifully in this Forum. Hence my intability to express properly but a wise reader can well understand my sentiments. I hate India. I do not hate general people living in India or Indian people living around me Hindus, Muslims Sikhs as most of these are human being and good but I hate India as a State and enemy of Pakistan and Muslims. Here abroad my air conditioners and refrigerator is every year overhauled by an Indian Sikh shop keeper, my next colleague is a Hindu and just 10 minutes before a Christian friend was having a cup with me and I was also drinking tea with his taking biscuits from same plate.
GENERALS LOOTING
It has most been said that Generals have looted. How many are such Generals? May be one or two percent? But point is are these Generals not Pakisanis and amongst we the general soceity? Why we expect Generals to be from some other God? These alleged corrupt generals are fathers sons husbands from our own families. If we the general soceity is corrupt why then strange if any armyman is? If leaders, bureaucrats, general public whereever is possible can loot then why not any army man? Are they not from amongst us. According to a news item one Overseas Pakistani M. Javed informed with some documents to a Minister about purchase of OPF Office in Karachi showing residential building as commercial building and now NAB has started investigation. Naturally some corrupt bureaucrats did it. So why if any arm person do the same – if something such irregularity has been done in the army it is just fractions towhat bureaucrats, leaders have come. How much electricity is being stolen by we the common people. Just see Jackobad area, New Karachi, Jehrangir road in Karachi you will see nakedly thousands of Kunda on electricty main line. All these illegal users are we the common men so if we can do all illegals where our “courage” permits us why raising fingers in any uniformed person did. How many of us particularly coming form middle east have illegally purhcased Pakistani cash in our pockets against prescribed rule. We do this because we can do this illegal which act also is a corruption then why crying over army.
How about - we won’t know until the Army allows others to see who is doing what? If most of the Generals are clean, then why not let everyone be investigated or allow assets to be published? What is being hiddne?
Queries about ex-generals’ assets rejected
By our correspondent
ISLAMABAD: **The Senate Secretariat has scrapped opposition senators’ questions seeking details of assets of late Gen Ziaul Haq, Gen Akhtar Abdur Rehman during the period 1977-1985, arguing they were of secret nature and could not be disclosed to public.
Likewise, another question regarding allotment of a plot in the Police Foundation, Islamabad to Gen Pervez Musharraf has not been accepted on the grounds that no question could be put against the president of Pakistan.**
This is not for the first time that such questions particularly raised by Senator Farhatullah Babar have been turned down by the chairman Senate on the grounds of secrecy. :rolleyes: Earlier, Babar had asked the defence minister to state whether the practice of asset declaration by the army officers before the central officers record office (GHQ) was still continuing or has been discontinued.
If the practice was continuing, then assets of Gen Zia during 1977 when he imposed military rule and in 1985 when elections were held be declared. Likewise, the government was also asked to give similar details about the assets of Gen Akthar Abdur Rehman during the same years. The defence minister was also asked to tell whether General Pervez Musharraf had obtained a plot for himself from the Police Foundation
NAB can’t sue armed forces personnel
By our correspondent
ISLAMABAD: The National Accountability Bureau (NAB) could not file a case against members of Pakistan Armed Forces because of the immunity granted to them under the Constitution and the Supreme Court judgment, confirmed Prosecutor-General Accountability Raja Muhammad Bashir here on Tuesday.
The controversy of moving against members of the armed forces began when disgraced former naval chief Mansurul Haq attributed a statement to the chief executive that “serving military officers would also be taken to task”. “The Army law is self-contained and the accountability of Army officers and other ranks are held within the parameters of that law,” said Raja Bashir.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Imdad I have advice for ya.... "SHUTUP" you have made enough "you know what" of yourself.... I think you must leave Pak and go live in India a nice place called Gujarat.... After all its a democracy, right..... May be then you should ask one democraZy to help another save its ass in Iraq.... Sounds like a plan.... what ya think....
[/QUOTE]
You are truly as brilliant as the minds of pak army who thought of the idea of strategic dept in afghanistan. My home is Karachi now, not any palce in India.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
You are truly as brilliant as the minds of pak army who thought of the idea of strategic dept in afghanistan. My home is Karachi now, not any palce in India.
[/QUOTE]
Whoop-de doo, why dont you have anyting intligent to add to the boards except your usual dry rethorict!