Why Pakistan does not have police under local Govt and local SHO/ head of local Police station elected by people?
Is this a good idea?
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Because democracy got us Zardari - it doesn't work perfectly for Pakistan. Elite capture of the police - while I'm sure a lot of it already happens might be higher if people would vote for their SHO.
Hypothetical SHO seeking election or gangster: Vote for me or I'll make life terrible for you.....
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
^ true that. SHO and other officials should be on merit basis ONLY.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Why Pakistan does not have police under local Govt and local SHO/ head of local Police station elected by people?
Is this a good idea?
Our people's selection criteria is not up to the standard. When they can elect a fake degree holder like Jamshed Dasti for the national assembly, How poor will be their choice for a head of local police station.
And who will give assurance about head of local police station, that he will also give justice to those people, who have not voted him?????????????
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Because democracy got us Zardari - it doesn't work perfectly for Pakistan. Elite capture of the police - while I'm sure a lot of it already happens might be higher if people would vote for their SHO.
Hypothetical SHO seeking election or gangster: Vote for me or I'll make life terrible for you.....
Yes, but there has to be a start somewhere. Past performance may give some guide as to who should be elected. Besides at small level regular elections may help people to get used to of the process of electing security officials as well.
^ true that. SHO and other officials should be on merit basis ONLY.
Our people's selection criteria is not up to the standard. When they can elect a fake degree holder like Jamshed Dasti for the national assembly, How poor will be their choice for a head of local police station. And who will give assurance about head of local police station, that he will also give justice to those people, who have not voted him?????????????
I know it is ideal, but should that be a reason not to even try to implement?
Security is the biggest issue in country. With justice system not being strong and out of reach of common man.
You fix these two all other get better along the way.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Yes, but there has to be a start somewhere. Past performance may give some guide as to who should be elected. Besides at small level regular elections may help people to get used to of the process of electing security officials as well.
I know it is ideal, but should that be a reason not to even try to implement?
Security is the biggest issue in country. With justice system not being strong and out of reach of common man.
You fix these two all other get better along the way.
One math formula can not solve all the questions in the book. Police is a very important organization, we should not experiment with it. Instead of trying a new system we should repair and improve the current police system.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Yes try it to change their uniforms first:D: about beer bellies hmm(rishwat khor bellies is better) they need to stop it by themself. Well, this important organisation always used by bad corrupt polticians/Jagirdar/Wadaers/Choudhies/Land lords/Millioners for their personal interests and after ALL those duties they do for them they aint have time for awam, I am agreed with zafar not new experiement just need tuning in current system and its could not be gonna happend till we repair and improve whole system.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
One math formula can not solve all the questions in the book. Police is a very important organization, we should not experiment with it. Instead of trying a new system we should repair and improve the current police system.
Improvement is all good, but the control will stll not be by awam. A locally elected officer woud know what is the source of law and order problem in that area and will have no or little excuses when asked questions.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Look at the quality of locally chosen politicians that our elections get us. Now imagine that applied to the police....
More seriously, it would tie the police to local politics. To give you an example, in areas of Karachi which regularly elect MQM politicians, you would now get MQM police. Imagine what the MQM could do when they have full control of the police in an area....
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Improvement is all good, but the control will stll not be by awam. A locally elected officer woud know what is the source of law and order problem in that area and will have no or little excuses when asked questions.
World's best police department is elected by people?
When are voters lists are full of fake voters and the case is in the supreme court, can we elect the best police officers??????
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Look at the quality of locally chosen politicians that our elections get us. Now imagine that applied to the police....
More seriously, it would tie the police to local politics. To give you an example, in areas of Karachi which regularly elect MQM politicians, you would now get MQM police. Imagine what the MQM could do when they have full control of the police in an area....
The problem in many parts of the world and in Pakistan is universal.
*Those who are in power do not repesent those who are not.
*
If Police (and rangers) are not local. There is a lack of sympathy and connection from both sides.
You said imagine if MQM is the police (Hypothetically). So why not? If elected by locals, they will have to safeguard locals. Why is that a problem.
The goal is safety of people regardless of who does it.
If crimes occur in the areas controlled by MQM police (again hypothetic as you place it), then who will be the loser?
MQM will be the loser and MQM will not be able to come with the excuse, "we are powerless".
People will lose confidence on whoever is responsible but does not deliver.
Public contribution to safety forces will create satisfaction at least the person is local known to the area, lives in same neighborhood and has family there.
As it is, a person from hundreds of miles comes and assumes safety responsiblty, not knowing how long that person will be there before moved to some dfferent area to collect bhatta/rishwat etc. This creates carelessness. Locals do not care for them in return.
Bottom line: Outsider will never care of locals as local will care for locals.
(Local means someone who permanently lives in same area)
P.S. In East Pakistan, Army had no sympathy for locals we know that. They entered there as if they were going to a foreign land and locals felt they were invaders. Result: We all know.
Creating local based safety forces hence is very useful during the time of chaos.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Contribution by locals in safety.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/513884-terrorists-in-command-and-control.html
If things go in the same direction (as pointed out in referred thread) with your suggested solution, there will be more NO-GO Areas.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
I think that needs to be looked at seriously if the allegations are correct or not.
I went along with madscientist for his hypthetical MQM control but in reality it does not matter. A local person is best for safety of an area. Besides I am talking about rest of Pakistan too.
Plenty of reasons for having local control.
Could it not be that since there is a rift between sindh and local govt. in Karachi over control, and the idea is how to keep/ or bring local Karachi control to greater sindh govt. these news can be brought to surface.
… Possible or not?
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
I think that needs to be looked at seriously if the allegations are correct or not.
I went along with madscientist for his hypthetical MQM control but in reality it does not matter. A local person is best for safety of an area. Besides I am talking about rest of Pakistan too.
Plenty of reasons for having local control.
Could it not be that since there is a rift between sindh and local govt. in Karachi over control, and the idea is how to keep/ or bring local Karachi control to greater sindh govt. these news can be brought to surface. ... Possible or not?
In all over the world, ppl from different cities even in some cases ppl from different countries are hired for security purposes and we are emphasizing here local hiring instead of improvement of existing system. All the problems in police can't be associated with the ppl hired from outside city, there are other elements that needs to be considered specially political interference.
What do you mean by rift between sindh and local govt. in Karachi?
Regarding other thread, quite possible that it may be a propaganda, but you can't avoid chances of such things especially when we all know that there was no footage available from these cams for 12 Rabi ul Awwal, 12th May, Ashura incidents.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
In all over the world, ppl from different cities even in some cases ppl from different countries are hired for security purposes and we are emphasizing here local hiring instead of improvement of existing system. All the problems in police can't be associated with the ppl hired from outside city, there are other elements that needs to be considered specially political interference.
What do you mean by rift between sindh and local govt. in Karachi?
Regarding other thread, quite possible that it may be a propaganda, but you can't avoid chances of such things especially when we all know that there was no footage available from these cams for 12 Rabi ul Awwal, 12th May, Ashura incidents.
Whatever brings peace is fine.
I am curious as to how much really we understand what people really feel when rangers/police either shows no interest in bringing peace when two groups fight.
The inaction of police brings the feelng that maybe the police offiicers were local and worried about citizens of like their own family members.
Yes there is rift between two forces, Sindhi nationalistic mind wants to have power on all sindh including city areas in the name of unity of the province and any local govt. model is considered a threat to ts false meaning/definition of unity.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Whatever brings peace is fine.
Yes there is rift between two forces, Sindhi nationalistic mind wants to have power on all sindh including city areas in the name of unity of the province and any local govt. model is considered a threat to ts false meaning/definition of unity.
You just mentioned one force (Sindhi Nationalists). What is the other party to rift.
Could you please explain your point. Will it be ok, if Sindhi speaking ppl limit themselves to rural areas (in general / biased terms interior Sindh) and leave Karachi & Hyderabad (city areas) for other force.
Plz explain what that local government system has given to ppl of Sindh except some roads in some of the areas of Karachi. What good it has done for Malir, Lyari areas of Karachi and other parts of Sindh (including Hyderabad).
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Could you please explain your point by specifying example what that local government system has given to ppl of Sindh except some roads in some of the areas of Karachi. What good it has done for Malir, Lyari areas of Karachi and other parts of Sindh (including Hyderabad).
The argument is not really strong even if the answer is given.
What has centralized provincial govt given to anyone including areas of Malir, Lyari,? . not even the few streets! :)
I included the streets examle only to avoid going to length and try to dig up other benefits of local govt.
Does public opinion count or awam should just live like Riaaya of a King sending forces to half heartedly work to bring peace?
A peaceful country/city is better place to florish and prosper. Everyone benefits. Right?
Its about time locals be given more authorities and hence satisfactions to local people. Within a strong federal Govt.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
The argument is not really strong even if the answer is given.
What has centralized provincial govt given to anyone including areas of Malir, Lyari,? . not even the few streets! :)
I included the streets examle only to avoid going to length and try to dig up other benefits of local govt.
Does public opinion count or awam should just live like Riaaya of a King sending forces to half heartedly work to bring peace?
A peaceful country/city is better place to florish and prosper. Everyone benefits. Right?
Its about time locals be given more authorities and hence satisfactions to local people. Within a strong federal Govt.
I don't see any benefits accrued to Sindh through local government system except I mentioned above. You should consider which developments were made during Musharraf regime in rural Sindh. Its nothing. It means the system was not proved better compared to old system.
The shuffling of systems also creates hindrance in improvement of existing systems. May be quantumn of funds allocated to city governments would have brought similar results under old but improved Commissionerate system. If all other three provinces are following the Commissionerate system, why Sindh has to follow that system introduced by a dictator which resulted divisions of districts benefiting some political parties at the time of election.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
A dumb idea. People in Pakistan are not empowered hence the police will not be answerable to people but to the sector incharge, local wadera or badmash.
Re: Pakistani Police: Why not?
Well said 