Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

[Spock]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that ‘lever killed Bhutto’ theory

Ministry backtracks on Benazir sunroof claims
**** Cheema says earlier statement based on doctors’ report

• Ministry to reveal conclusion after investigators complete probe***

LAHORE/ISLAMABAD: The Interior Ministry on Tuesday backtracked on its statement that former premier Benazir Bhutto was killed after the lever of her vehicle’s sunroof fractured her skull when she ducked in her vehicle after a gun and bomb attack on December 27.

Interior Ministry spokesman Brigadier (r) Javed Iqbal Cheema told CNN that the ministry would wait for forensic investigators’ findings before reaching a conclusion on the cause of her death.

Initial probe: Cheema said his Friday statement about the sunroof lever was based “on the initial investigations and reports by doctors” who treated Benazir at the Rawalpindi General Hospital. A ministry statement said, “There is no intention to conceal anything from the people of Pakistan.”

Findings: The ministry announced to reveal findings of the investigation soon after the probe was over, according to staff report. “We will hide nothing from the nation and will present the final report about Benazir’s death once the investigation is complete,” Cheema told a news conference at his office.

Cheema reiterated that Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan chief Baitullah Mehsud was behind the suicide attack that killed Benazir. “I stand by my statement regarding the involvement of Baitullah Mehsud in her killing. Whatever I had told the media was based on information retrieved from Baitullah’s intercepted telephonic conversation,” he said.

Cheema said foolproof security would be provided to all leaders, including Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) leader Nawaz Sharif, who were facing life threats from militants. He said the situation in the country was getting back to normalcy and that law and order would be restored soon.

He said efforts were under way to restore peace in the Kurram Agency and that a tribal jirga would soon be formed in this regard. He said at least 57 people had been killed in violence in the agency since December 24, adding that the government’s writ would soon be established in the area. daily times monitor/staff report

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\01\02\story_2-1-2008_pg1_6

[system]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that ‘lever killed Bhutto’ theory

Now the Doctor is saying that he was ordered to remain silent and med records were removed by the govt…

What the hell is wrong with this idiotic regime?!?!
Unecessary lies, deceptions, outright BS… Why!!!

http://www.dawn.com/2008/01/02/nat3.htm

[Rebel_X]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

so the dawn article references a washington post article. anyways the post article has an interesting statement amidst all this cloak and dagger.

• some US medical experts, when asked to review an official hospital description of her wounds, speculated that a skull fracture and not a bullet wound killed Ms Bhutto.*

so now its even more confusing

[system]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@Rebel_X

so the dawn article references a washington post article. anyways the post article has an interesting statement amidst all this cloak and dagger.

• some US medical experts, when asked to review an official hospital description of her wounds, speculated that a skull fracture and not a bullet wound killed Ms Bhutto.*

so now its even more confusing

Fracturing your skull isnt as easy as it sounds... The skull is pretty tough.. How in the hell could Benazir fracture her skull?

My 1 year old Nephew fell out of his high chair last month and hit his head pretty bad... He's still alive and kicking, even though it took a number of stitches... So a grown woman, dying from just hitting her head is ridiculous.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@Spock

lol where are the ex-mqm-expert shooters telling us how the shooter would have failed lol

I was going by the earlier video with the different angle, but the new video obviously shows that the shooter had a much better angle. Unlike you, when I'm wrong, I admit it.

[Rebel_X]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@PaKpatriot1

Fracturing your skull isnt as easy as it sounds... The skull is pretty tough.. How in the hell could Benazir fracture her skull?

My 1 year old Nephew fell out of his high chair last month and hit his head pretty bad... He's still alive and kicking, even though it took a number of stitches... So a grown woman, dying from just hitting her head is ridiculous.

true, it is hard to fracture a skull. although back in the 80s my nana was walkign when hit by a motobike. he fell, not only did he fractue his skull but also had brain hemmoraging and needed invasive surgery where they had to cut off part of the skull bone to even go in and stop. he was in his 60's then i believe.

but that is what I asked iconoclast as well. about the impact question. if medical experts are saying that it was a skull fracture not a bullet wound, then I dunno.

maybe the bullet did not hit her straight on her head but skipped on the head like a rock skips on the surface of a lake u know, just richochet off the skull but did enough damage.

reports dont note telltale signs of a bullet wound, and no bullets were seen in the xray.

agai I am only goign by teh doctors statements and xrays, if they are false or incomplete then that is a whole diff story.

[Spock]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@Khehkeshan

I was going by the earlier video with the different angle, but the new video obviously shows that the shooter had a much better angle. Unlike you, when I'm wrong, I admit it.

lol we would have had alot of fun with you had you denied the bullet wound after watching that, but then again there are some mush apologists still doing so, so ill focus on them...

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@Spock

lol we would have had alot of fun with you had you denied the bullet wound after watching that, but then again there are some mush apologists still doing so, so ill focus on them...

Good thing there is a video, or we would have heard from you and other jihadis/jiayalas that it was a sniper shooting. That was Sherry Rehman's version some days ago.

[Spock]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@Khehkeshan

Good thing there is a video, or we would have heard from you and other jihadis/jiayalas that it was a sniper shooting. That was Sherry Rehman's version some days ago.

Good thing you admitted your whole non-sense theory about that shooter was a pack of crap.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

What an embarrassment. Musharraf is going loony these days. Why can't they just relate the doctor's report as it was written. If there was a gunshot wound on the body, its pretty obvious to the doctor. You don't even need an autopsy really to determine that there was a bullet wound. The way they were talking about it seemed like she experienced a fracture on the skull which led to hemorrhaging in the brain.

There should be no reason why 2-3 stories are flying around on how she died. It should be ridiculously obvious and it should be in writing by the medical doctor who examined her, and that document should be in the government's hands and available to the public. Period.

[Spock]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@PyariCgudia

What an embarrassment. Musharraf is going loony these days. Why can't they just relate the doctor's report as it was written. If there was a gunshot wound on the body, its pretty obvious to the doctor. You don't even need an autopsy really to determine that there was a bullet wound. The way they were talking about it seemed like she experienced a fracture on the skull which led to hemorrhaging in the brain.

There should be no reason why 2-3 stories are flying around on how she died. It should be ridiculously obvious and it should be in writing by the medical doctor who examined her, and that document should be in the government's hands and available to the public. Period.

True, but there was a very good reason why the govt came up with this hosh posh, and urgency to get rid of the issue.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

I don't give a rat's behind about their reasons. If this is their idea of playing politics, this has got to be the most DUMB thing I've seen the government do. Abhay they can't figure out if it was a bullet wound or if it was a metal lever slamming her head? The metal lever would most likely have caused an internal bleed, and the amount of blood you see in the car is not likely to have been caused by a slam on the head. I mean, its always possible, don't get me wrong, and it would depend on where she got hit on the head, but the blood looked like it was spilled from a spurting wound. That's my rough assessment based on the pictures of the car.

Rahi baath whether or not there are really metal levers on the car - the reporters should be able to take a look at the car remains, wherever the hell they are.

This government does not understand one thing. And this is what will lead to its eventual fall: Transparency.

You MUST be transparent when you are to be a good leader. No lies, no hiding things from people that folks are smart enough to figure out on their own.

Zardari and his cows are even less smarter, which is why I'm still hoping Musharraf doesn't get shot any time soon. So, I'm still pro-Musharraf (NOT because I'm a sleezy MQM activist, by the way). But the government's handling of the situation is seriously shocking me.

I mean, people are not THAT dumb as these retards think everyone is. We're not effing grazing cows farting in the fields.

[system]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@Rebel_X

true, it is hard to fracture a skull. although back in the 80s my nana was walkign when hit by a motobike. he fell, not only did he fractue his skull but also had brain hemmoraging and needed invasive surgery where they had to cut off part of the skull bone to even go in and stop. he was in his 60's then i believe.

but that is what I asked iconoclast as well. about the impact question. if medical experts are saying that it was a skull fracture not a bullet wound, then I dunno.

maybe the bullet did not hit her straight on her head but skipped on the head like a rock skips on the surface of a lake u know, just richochet off the skull but did enough damage.

reports dont note telltale signs of a bullet wound, and no bullets were seen in the xray.

agai I am only goign by teh doctors statements and xrays, if they are false or incomplete then that is a whole diff story.

Motorcycle accident is very different thing.. The impact can be very severe, you do have to take into account the momentum of the the Motorcycle. And where you hit and how you hit is also important, the forehed for instance is the hardest part, but the main factor is force.

A brain hemorhage would be invisible ofcourse and you woudlnt see blood at all..

The Bullet could graze the head, but it would only cause a gash, but it wouldnt do enough damage to kill the person so long as the wound is stitched quicky enough... I think if the Bullet was close enough to fracture the skull though, it would have entered it, not grazed of of it...
Im not sure, there has yet to be a real investigation into what really happened, and its already been almost a week and nothing substantial.
The doctor said that he the medical report was confiscated and he was ordered to stay quite.. So I dont know... There are some classic signs of somthing being hidden or covered up... Very suspicious.

[Spock]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@PyariCgudia

I don't give a rat's behind about their reasons. If this is their idea of playing politics, this has got to be the most DUMB thing I've seen the government do. Abhay they can't figure out if it was a bullet wound or if it was a metal lever slamming her head? The metal lever would most likely have caused an internal bleed, and the amount of blood you see in the car is not likely to have been caused by a slam on the head. I mean, its always possible, don't get me wrong, and it would depend on where she got hit on the head, but the blood looked like it was spilled from a spurting wound. That's my rough assessment based on the pictures of the car.

Rahi baath whether or not there are really metal levers on the car - the reporters should be able to take a look at the car remains, wherever the hell they are.

This government does not understand one thing. And this is what will lead to its eventual fall: Transparency.

You MUST be transparent when you are to be a good leader. No lies, no hiding things from people that folks are smart enough to figure out on their own.

Zardari and his cows are even less smarter, which is why I'm still hoping Musharraf doesn't get shot any time soon. So, I'm still pro-Musharraf (NOT because I'm a sleezy MQM activist, by the way). But the government's handling of the situation is seriously shocking me.

I mean, people are not THAT dumb as these retards think everyone is. We're not effing grazing cows farting in the fields.

And again, its because they are involved in the assasination, nothing more, nothing less.

[system]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

I just heard NPR talking about all this... The host was just shaking his head at the stupidity of the govt on all this.
This govt has really turned the country into a laughing stock...

[Rebel_X]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@PaKpatriot1

Motorcycle accident is very different thing.. The impact can be very severe, you do have to take into account the momentum of the the Motorcycle. And where you hit and how you hit is also important, the forehed for instance is the hardest part, but the main factor is force.

yeah i understand bro, the bike did not hit him on his head, he fell once he got hit by the bike and hit his head on a sidewalk or something.

@PaKpatriot1

The Bullet could graze the head, but it would only cause a gash, but it wouldnt do enough damage to kill the person so long as the wound is stitched quicky enough... I think if the Bullet was close enough to fracture the skull though, it would have entered it, not grazed of of it...

and at such short distance a direct bullet hit to the head would mean immediate death in most cases, and it is unlikely that the bullet would not exit, in the video as we see her scarf move, we dont see splatter, pic is bad but grainier pics have been looked at by experts in other places to see such things.

@PaKpatriot1

Im not sure, there has yet to be a real investigation into what really happened, and its already been almost a week and nothing substantial. The doctor said that he the medical report was confiscated and he was ordered to stay quite.. So I dont know... There are some classic signs of somthing being hidden or covered up... Very suspicious.

it is indeed very dodgy, but every account seems to be counter to the videos. from that close of distance if she was hit, we would see her head move and not just the scraf.. teh impact of the bullet is that strong. same for the neck, no splatter caught on video.

so..I ama s confused as you are, and feel that if not for a post mortem if PPP folks felt foul play and had released pics of bullet entry and exit wounds right away it would be a diff story.

i dont believe either accounts.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

Maybe she was alive when she got to the hospital and Zardari choked her to death in the OR?

Either way, he's smiling all the way to the bank as he's now in full control of the PPP. I just hope his son kicks him on the rear end as soon as he's done with Oxford. I am PRAYING that boy uses his mind.

[system]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@Rebel_X

yeah i understand bro, the bike did not hit him on his head, he fell once he got hit by the bike and hit his head on a sidewalk or something.

and at such short distance a direct bullet hit to the head would mean immediate death in most cases, and it is unlikely that the bullet would not exit, in the video as we see her scarf move, we dont see splatter, pic is bad but grainier pics have been looked at by experts in other places to see such things.

it is indeed very dodgy, but every account seems to be counter to the videos. from that close of distance if she was hit, we would see her head move and not just the scraf.. teh impact of the bullet is that strong. same for the neck, no splatter caught on video.

so..I ama s confused as you are, and feel that if not for a post mortem if PPP folks felt foul play and had released pics of bullet entry and exit wounds right away it would be a diff story.

i dont believe either accounts.

Well, I meant that if the motor cycle hits you, it would add to the momentum of the impact when you hit the pavement...

My other bone to pick is over the fact that the govt is making statements to begin with... Isnt that the job of the medical examiner?

And I dont blame the PPP for not wanting an autopsy, I would agree..
What distrubing is the news that the govt confiscated the med examiners findings and apparently threatened the doctors...

[5Abi]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that ‘lever killed Bhutto’ theory

@PaKpatriot1

Now the Doctor is saying that he was ordered to remain silent and med records were removed by the govt…

What the hell is wrong with this idiotic regime?!?!
Unecessary lies, deceptions, outright BS… Why!!!

http://www.dawn.com/2008/01/02/nat3.htm

interesting indeed and who’s x-rays they put up for display?

[Spock]

Re: Pakistani Government retracts that 'lever killed Bhutto' theory

@PyariCgudia

Maybe she was alive when she got to the hospital and Zardari choked her to death in the OR?

lol obviously you have no clue what youre talking about, not to mention the fact that Zardari and his kids arrived AFTER she was pronounced dead. Also, if ure not blind, you might want to check out the second video that made the govt eat its initial statements.

[quote]

Either way, he's smiling all the way to the bank as he's now in full control of the PPP. I just hope his son kicks him on the rear end as soon as he's done with Oxford. I am PRAYING that boy uses his mind.
[/quote]

He was before too.