Since we now have a major film maker like Mr Lucman on this forum I would want to pose him with a question which has been in my mind for some times now. I’ve talked about this film industry dilemma with quite a few people, and the general point of view is like in any business, investors would finance Pakistani films if they got reasonable returns – that the Pakistani market is simply not large enough to recover the massive amounts [usually about 10/20 million for a decent Pak film] which are invested.
I disagree on that point. To prove my point, I would have to work on the math of it. In 1999, Inteha and Guns and Roses Ik Junoon were released on about 25 prints in Karachi alone The figure I got from the film ads which appeared in the major newspapers, for Karachi, prior to the release of the film]. If every cinema is taken to have an average of 300 seats [which is the minimum figure I guess] and with each film having 21/22 [7 x 3 = 21] shows in a week, would mean a weekly capacity of about 6300 per theatre for a film. And for the film as a whole, running on 25 prints would mean a max capacity of (6300 x 25)157,500 per week.
Translating that to finance [at an average ticket price of say, Rs 50, which is again on the very low side] would mean that the 1st week revenue of the film going at 100% capacity would be about 79 lakhs from Karachi alone. That’s a massive figure, and with a 50% weekely decline (which is what happens in the US), would mean that the film makes about 15 million that is 1.5 crore from Karachi alone!
These figures are purely hypothetical, and as i said before the theatre capacity/ticket rate have been selected to be on the lower side. What I mean to point out is that even with these, the actual gross for a film from Pak’s largest city is HUGE!
So how can it be that its not possible to recover from the market? Specially if it opens well. Are the distributors evading the tax authorities by understating the returns?
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Hm, maybe because the cinema needs to take out its expenses...and that the distributors need to take their expenses...and then there are the actual costs of making the film, and the exorbitant fees that actresses charge, etc.
Plus, not to mention that we're talking about Pakistani cinema, so some of the money is probably pocketed unethically.
Plus, not to mention the fact that the cinema houses are not packed for every showing during the week - and I'm not sure if they run one film 21/22 times per week either.
Plus, 50 percent decline is being very generous - I doubt most movies make it to that mark.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Oh plus, not to mention that most of the cinema houses in khi that once existed are now shut down, or they're only showing English movies to survive.
I think only a handful of the major ones are still left. The rest of them are located in really bad areas. Have you visited karachi. There is a line of the better ones around where Pearl Continental is...or well that's the raasta we take to get there. You have nishaat cinema, etc over there - I think some of those have shut down, which was a big issue of concern these days.
The rest are located in dingy alleys.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
I'm almost certain that 21/22 shows DO happen for a film during its initial run. If a film does well (as was the case with Yeh Dil Aap Ka Huwa) they even have additional screenings other than the regular ones. Which means 21 is a minimal figure. And I think 50% decline is a reasonable average -- because "hit" films show strong legs, while it's with the "dubba" ones that this 50% [or more] weekly drop actually happens.
In the mid to late 90s, when movies actually worked at the box office, a good film usually was released on atleast 15+ prints each in Karachi and Lahore. Now, ofcourse, as you say, the state of affairs is very different. The emphasis now is on the quality of the cinemas [the ones which can support DTS and other stuff] and not the sheer number of prints, as Yeh Dil Aap Ka Huwa set the trend when it grossed about 20 crores from less than 20 prints across Pak!
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
^ Oh definitely it did hit the mark, although I do not know how because the dialogues were so poorly written - I was able to come up with crap like that in middle school.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
By the way, the figures I've put in are for 1999, and not today....it's like even way back then, these films made huge money! And yeah, Yeh Dil.... was an awful film. Didn't enjoy it one bit -- but then it scored because it was so devoid of vulgarity and looked somewhat sophisticated.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Compared to Indian films, the scale is totally different. And Pakistanis are complaining that the money being pulled in is not enough to make those kinds of movies, at that "calibre".
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
I think the comparisons with India are futile. We have better taste than them anyway, it's just sad that's not reflected in films!
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
^ Hain? Weren’t you talking about how we should model our industry more along the lines of Bollywood masala flicks by using sex as a selling tactic rather than observing the Iranian industry, where the influences are more religious-based?
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
No I was not. I was talking in realistic terms as to what actually happens when you make these social well intentioned movies which somehow bomb at the box office. Sex in noway equates entertainment (unless, that’s the stuff which turns you on ).
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Sir I dont think the comparisons are wrong. By the way the depth of the cinema in Pakistan can be judged by the fact that CHOORIAN did RS 37 crores of business and it had a ticket price of only RS 35. LIke wise YDAKH did RS 7 crores. The cinema figures are neither accurate nor do they work like that. The numbers are depreciating and very fast. There are multiple problems in our screening at the moment. If a typical Urdu film released in 22 theatres nationwide does a full house then in the first week the returns (BAck to the producer) are almost Rs 7 million or around that. But that does not happen. Look at this example, in case you have been to Lahore then you will know. All major cinemas are located on the Laxmi Chowk. Allama Iqbal Town has almost 11000 homes almost a mini city. Now add up to that little mini city, model town, defence, Town Ship, Industrial area, Garden Town, Muslim Town, New Muslim Town, Rivaz Garden, Mayo gardens, Gulshan E Ravi, Wasan Pura, Shahalam MArket, Band Road, Samanabad, Ravi Road, Jauhar Town, PECHS Society, PCSCIR, Tech society, etc you can calculate the population figures I am not good at statistics. Thats almost 4 to five million people living in these areas and guess what none of them have a cinema in there. If you add Gullberg as it has one cinema Capri that is not functioning then you can count the number of families that are far and away from cinemas. Now an average family in Pakistan does not own a car. So if they wish to come down to Laxmi chowk it means RS 500 per trip on cab and then add to that the late hours that can be evry discouraging for families when they are returning to far flung areas. This means that your last show is almost a wash out. Dont count on that. Also your other shows are hit by piracy and other disturbances in the city. For instance who would want to venture out to a movie when a bomb blast has occured around the old city?? Or if anIndia Pakistan cricket match is on? Not that it happens every day but it does keep people indoors. So the need is to develop smaller cinemas or multipleases in local areas that will give people the access or easy access to cinemas and only then it will be commercially viable. Now its not the hypothetical rates calculated but they go down even further. For instance my film will have a ticket of Rs 100, and the lower stalls or galleries will have a ticket of Rs 60 and 40 respectively. The average may seem to be RS 75 but it is not. In real terms say about 20 or 25 percent will be taken by the distributor and then cut out the cineam owners share then take out any publicity there is or allied costs of making photosets press ads etc. Then you can start to calculate my share that comes in after deducting all those shares.!!!!!!!!!!!
To do good business it is imperative that they are advertised adequately. To recover that ad spend is a nightmare. Hece a lot of people rely on scandals and press coverage otherwise and thats one reason why you seen such silly remarks coming out in the press about each other its all to generate some publicity for the film. When we make an expensive project like mine then we have to rely on heavy advertising campaign and if it does not do well even for a couple of days in the first week then its all over. Normally the recurring weeks give you 60% of the first week. Also the weekdays give you only 50% of the weekends, check the trends in Europe and the USA and you will know its prevalent there as well. So my friend we need to develop smaller and more viable cinemas and think of ways to attract peopel to cinemas besides improving our films!!!!!!!!! I hope you agree.
This is one reason when film makers who are determined to make a difference come and make a film it may not be the best one in the world but it is still an attempt and tehy dont get a favourable response at teh box offcie then they are totally washed out. They will have to go in the background make anotehr 25 million before embarking on a film or find a person willing to sacrifice his millions in a loosing scenario. Thats is discouraging and hence you see all tehse attempts wehre directors or makers are desperate to show vulgarity in cheap flicks thinking they will make a fast busk out of controversy or the younger crownd who can come on motor bikes etc and then turn away with their profits, that may not be a lot but still they are profits..
Thats why I have always maintained that if some one is to take the blame for bad films then it has to be all of us and not just one artist or a director simply all of us......Hard facts sir..I hope you will agree?
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Your Pakistani films will keep on failing. Ask WHy?
*The answer is pretty simple. Pakistan makes very disgusting movies. Not worth even 1penny. *
*U people cry that u dont have budget to make good films. Thts not an excuse. *
*It is very much possible to make a good film with less finance. *
What is a good film?
A good film is not one in which u show exotic foreign locations.
But a good film, has content. Meaningful content. Excellent interesting and original story.
*Good acting. Sorry to say but i see the actors in the films act over. Their style is disgusting. They need to change completely. Instead of shouting and screaming while saying the dialog cant they just talk properly and normaly. *
*Ur films are abnormal. *
*Ur mentalities needs to be changed. *
*U all shud be open to accept a massive change in all the arreas mentioned above. *
*Forget the finance. *
U can make good films if u change. And u will see success if tht happens.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Yeah...I agree actually. I was going to ask that if cost is such an issue, then why go to Thailand, etc to make movies? Isn't it cheaper to make movies in Pakistan. There are plenty of locations you can choose from, and you can always make sets - there is more creativity that way. Look at Paheli - one of their songs is done on a set and its part of the storyline.
Khair, you should get in touch with Golden Scorpion - he is one of our members on this website - he does a lot of traveling in Pakistan and he takes the most beautiful of pics. Some of his pics are up in Gallery - a lot of them he doesn't upload because it takes long to upload - hehe. But he somehow gets pictures of locations in Pakistan that I have never heard of and I don't know how the hell he does it - but they are the most prettiest locations that he captures on camera.
As for actors/actresses - I also agree that they just can't act. I think Shaan is the only one I've seen that can manage. The girls all scream, and they all overact. Reema is someone that I really love, but the lady can't act for beans. Neither can Meera. Resham was fine in dramas, but after joining films, she can't act. No actor/actress I've seen has that charm that Madhubhala had when on the silver screen. No one has that class. I would say that Madhuri, and a few other actresses have managed to match that class, but definitely I don't see it in the actors/actresses we have now.
Plus, the dance directors don't know the A B C D of classical or modern dance. They're not creative. They can't do dance choreography if their life depended on it and this Pappu Samrat idiot has no clue how cheap his dances look.
The sad thing is its hard to find Pakistanis who are learned in dance choreography. I wonder if there are any students in the USA.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
^^ PCG, films which are shot abroad will always have a novelty value for Pakistanis, for the simple fact that the standard fare IS shot in Pakistan. On the other hand, people like Ajab Gul have managed to brilliantly capture the Pakistani landscape on 35mm. Go watch his Khoey Ho Tum Kahan and in between some of the crude choreography you will find some spectacular shots. Some of them are still vivid in my mind! They're not as blaise as you think they are, our directors I mean.
The choreographers only do what is asked of them. If paid adequately, they can do better than any in the world, trust me on that. Go watch the Mehr Hassan video which Khanu Samraat choreographed. It's class. The film*walaas*, in part due to the reasons Mr Lucman has mentioned [basically to recover the amount] are somehow unwilling to come out o their own retarded stance on how a song should be shot an what kind of dance it should have. The kind of backgrounds most of them come from, that is understandable.
I absolutely disagree with you that our actors can not act. Give them good scripts, a good setup and they can beat the crap out of anyone in the world. I personally feel Moamar Rana, Shaan, Humayun Saeed, Meera and Resham are the most talented of the established lot. Zara Sheikh is the best in the newcomers. Reema is awful -- I just can not imagine how she can DIRECT a film when she's so hopeless at acting. So to sum up, it's basically a question of giving everyone a good platform to work on. Samina Peerzada did that w ith Inteha. I'm sure Mr Lucman will do that with Pehla Pehla Pyaar.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Are u kissing arse?
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
^^ That's actually rude. Check the promos of his film -- he aint got crude choreography, the acting SEEMS fine and everything else is OK.
What you guys are saying is the typical stance -- distant, cold and very very discouraging.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
I'm not talking specifically about his films. I'm speaking of films in general.
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Well one reason I went to Thailand is since my story demanded that we go over seas. I must admit a lot of times we choose foriegn locations even though they are more expensive and tough to bear for two reasons. One is that when you are abroad all your cast members are in control and tehy are not vanishing after two days of work whilst teh entire crew is looking for them. When they are (Trapped) in an alien environment with their passports in your hands they try and ensure that you get to finish your work soon as possible, so that they can get back to local scenario where they can act in five projects at teh same time. So in actuality the project costs break even and do nto come out to be that heavy. For instance in most cases units take their own cooks, so no hotel food is consumed, apartments are hired saving exhorbitant hotel costs. It snot like shifting into MArriot for two months and spending lavishly. The second reason whilst Pakistan is endowed with some of the most breathtaking locations a lot of them are not equiped to cater to full scale shoots. Teelvision is different btu film requries heavy and loads of equipment to be moved. You need power you need large amounts of water etc. For instance you need to take up cranes, dollies, HMI lights generators, power cables that are endlessly long and extra crew. It may hurt you to know a lot of places thus become not feasible for film shoots. And while some directors insist on shooting at such heights and they do as ell, their results are still far from flattering. its one thing to be able to booast about accomplishments its another makign otehrs speak about your work. Pakistan needs a healthy infrastructure to develop film making at large. This infrastructure does not come only with cameras, but allied indutries also need to be developed. Liek when you move with a crew of 80 people and a cast of about 35 you are talking about large vans, make up vans, changing and cooking vans, hotels or proper accomodations, first aid on hand and spare equipment. (If you get a fuse light you cant stop the shooting for one week and ask someone torent the nearest and fastest dog to Lahore and get a replacemetn for you.).
Like wise there is talent every where its the same case as you see in cricket. You see young lads playing cricket in every ground and road. Some are genuinely good others only believe they are good. But to identify that talent you need an entire infrastructure by virtue of which you can spot them and groom them. Like if you want me to discover talented singers in karachi. What if there is a real talented guy in Rahim Yar Khan or Swabi. Be realistic there can be only one Mehdi Hassan or Reshma or Fareeda KHanum or Iqbal Bano. You dont get such talent in abundance any where in teh world. So what happens? You have missed on on good talent simply by concentating in Karachi or lahore. Tahts the reason I even locally be it in front of the Prime Minister or any one else, I emphasise on developing an infrastructure and platforms where we can not on identify our upcoming talent but alsonurture it and groom it thats the professional way of ensuring that a regular crop of talented yyoungsters crops up every now and then or else today you may discover 20 singers accidently but after twenty years when they are gone you haev to start from square one. I can tell you that individually we haev tremendous amount of talent int eh coutnry. There is no doubt that Khanu is perhaps one of the best dance directors in teh region not just a country. But then how many professionals can you geenrate by accident like Khanu. Also its very easy to paste a comment on your thoughts its different to execute it when you become a professional. Like a majorrity of the people I have known or met dont knwo the difference between a dance director or a choreographer. Its amazing though it is very significant. Pappu Samrat for instance is a dance director and not teh latter. Sarooj Khan is the first one int eh region who gave a regular paltform to choreographers. A choregrapher in actuality is a director of Dance. Which means that in most cases when you haev a choreographer in action the director is on a vacation. Tat person is supposed to know about cameras, film stocks, lenses, gates, push processes, labs the works. I hate to break your heart but in some cases like YDAKH the director did not shoot the songs the other person did like in Reema's film now. I took JOJO so I gcould get the quality I was loooking for and the creative margins to execute my own shots and story boards. Or else Farrah would have been my premier choice nto even Ganesh or Raju as they are the current fads of the directors in Bollywood at present. Also the fight instructor of director of action has the same difference. Now hope fully you would know what I mean. So sir with all due respect if I am shooting my film on a ARRI 434 or a 535 a camera that honarable Pappu has not even seen in his dream how can I use his abilities as a directro no matter what I pay him???Its not only technology but most importantly its the technique itself. And please do nto ask me to experiment with wanna be hopefuls who would learn they are supposed to know it when they hit the professional field. You will nto excuse me for making a bad film once it is released you will nto pay me as it is my first film you will only write well about me if you are turned on by it. This world has become professional and requries specialists, if you are not one of them then soon you stand becomin a dinosaur...
Re: Pakistani films: Why not feasible?
Ok, I'm impressed. I didn't know Pakistani film makers were so down to earth. Indian film makers would never take the trouble to come on a forum and interact daily, and whats more tackle clueless critics who insist on giving HIM advice.
So Mr Lucman, are you going to promote your film on Indian forums, and even in India? Cosidering the craze in India of wanting to know more about Pakistan it might be a good idea. And when do you think we'll have the first full blown Indo/Pak commercial super hit? Right now there is only minimal exchange - either its a dance director or an actress or a singer. I've not watched them but got the news reading some of messages here. What I'm talking of is 50/50 effort from both sides, and premiering the movie same day in, lets say, bombay and karachi (dunno if karachi is the film capital). Capital might be a problem for Pakistani film makers from what i gather, since it takes at least 20-30 cr rs to make a decent film, btu I'm sure where there a will there's a way. That kind of venture if successful could open a whoe new division of nsubcontinental film making. Would it be a good thing for both countries? I know some people here are rabidly anti india and looking to bust bollywood (as if it's possible). It would be interesting to know your views on a cultural exchange that could impact both countries tremendously. I wonder if we can still war with each other after that....:)