Pakistan v/s India-- 2nd ODI

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
Yasir gone - Taufeeq in.
Malik gone - Afridi in.
Rana gone - Shabbir in.
Razzler gone - Rao Iftikhar in.

Here it comes down to.

  1. Farhat (fearless hitter/uses brain most of the time/opener/p.t bowler)
  2. Taufeeq (reliable and confident opener, good for steady and big scoring, Indian attack is a child's play for him, he is the most confident and fearless batsman from the very first ball, remeber WC03)
  3. Yoyo (the architect of Pakistani batting/ very reliable)
  4. Inzi (getting into form again, looking sharp against mediocre Indian attack)
  5. Yonis Khan (give him another chance)
  6. Shahid Afridi (a handy bowler/ excellent fielder/ pinch hitter in 1 out of 6 innings)
  7. Moin (keeper/hitter by luck/loosing his charm in batting, thus unreliable).
  8. Shoaib Akhtar (main striker/can bat too when needed)
  9. Sami (strike bowler, not in form these days, give him another chance/ can bat a bit, not reliable though) 10 Rao Iftikhar (medium pacer, good line and length, highest wicket taker for last couple of seasons in domenstic)
  10. Shabbir (kiya baat hai cheetay ki, very consistant bowler with excellent line and length, can take 2-3 wickets in the middle, run stopper)

Now with 4 specialist bowlers and Afridi in hand we are good on bowling side. Believe me. We can try Farhat, Younis and Inzi as well in case if one of the main striker is getting hammered. India is doing that too. It doesn't make any difference, Razzler aur shoaib ne tou wese bhi pitwana hota hai. So why not play 5 authentic batsman with Afridi and Moin covering them for hitting time.

Its time to say good bye to Razzler. The guy is too much of a hype for no good reason. We are suffering big time. 9-83-0 My God!
[/QUOTE]

You can't take Yasir out, He is too good to be taken out, when all the batsman failed in NZ he was still able to performed.
Yasir had a one bad game and you want to take him out, bad luck he get out on a reverse swing, he was having problem his eyes, if you remember he was keep touching is right eye and in the same over he got out.

42

jigar, he was not looking confident from the very first ball. Did you see it? He was shaky, eye problem is not an excuse in matach of this caliber. He could have called doctor to wash his eye right there, instead of loosing wicket. Khair getting out is not an issue here, confidence is what matters. Have you seen Taufeeq opening? He looks so confident, doesn't try outside offstump deliveries, leave them going to keeper and hits the right ball with class so the runrate doesn't fall either. Confidence is what makes difference in a pressure game. Remember his WC03 innings. He was the only player, played as he is playing against Zimbs or Lankans. He kept eyes on fielders and ball only and it was like he knew where he gonna push the next ball. That is Miandad's class.

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
jigar, he was not looking confident from the very first ball. Did you see it? He was shaky, eye problem is not an excuse in matach of this caliber. He could have called doctor to wash his eye right there, instead of loosing wicket. Khair getting out is not an issue here, confidence is what matters. Have you seen Taufeeq opening? He looks so confident, doesn't try outside offstump deliveries, leave them going to keeper and hits the right ball with class so the runrate doesn't fall either. Confidence is what makes difference in a pressure game. Remember his WC03 innings. He was the only player, played as he is playing against Zimbs or Lankans. He kept eyes on fielders and ball only and it was like he knew where he gonna push the next ball. That is Miandad's class.
[/QUOTE]

Ok, he was bit shaking........it was a big game he wasn't able to perform but he was performed big in the past. all I am saying that we can't count him out.

Taufeeq is an opener not Yasir, Yasir never open in domestic cricket he has always played @3, 4 or 5th.
Taufeeq has improved his shot selection and his timing, as Imran Khan said Taufeeq should be included in ODI instead of Imran Farhat.
Taufeeq is all-rounder, part time WK, can be used in case Moin is not healthy.

Here is my take......
We need a sixth bowler (Afridi or not)
Replace RANA with Roa or Shabbir
Razzaq?? His bowling really sucks; He should be included as a batsman or sixth bowler.

3rd ODI

1) Tufeeq Umar (WK)
2) Imran Nazir
3) Yousef Yohanna
4) Yasir Hameed
5) Inzi
6) Abdul Razzq / Bilal Asad /Qaiser Abbas
7) Shahid Afridi
8) Shaoib Malik / Saqlain Mustaq/ Qaiser Abbas
9) Shoaib Akhtar
10) Mohd Sami
11) Shabbir Ahmed /Iftikhar Anjum / Umar Gul

44

good news, guys.

Laxman and Shabbir likely to return

VVS Laxman, who missed the first one-day international at Karachi due to a knee injury, is likely to return to the Indian line-up for the second match, to be played at Rawalpindi on Tuesday. Laxman is expected to replace Hemang Badani.

There was good news in the Pakistan camp too, with Haroon Rashid, the team manager, announcing that Shabbir Ahmed had recovered from his hand injury and would play in the second ODI. Shabbir, who had injured his left hand during the conditioning camp in Lahore, should replace Naved-ul-Hasan, who took three wickets but went for 73 runs, 24 of them in his first over.

Meanwhile, John Wright, the Indian coach, has called for a better performance from his bowlers, especially in the middle overs. According to a report by Press Trust of India, Wright said: “The bowling has been a problem. We bowled well in the first 15 overs but the middle overs is an area of concern and we have to address that problem quickly. The bowlers know about it and we have to sort out the problem in this area in the coming matches.” India conceded just 71 in the first 15 overs at Karachi, but then went for 187 in the next 25, a rate of seven and a half per over.

45

Personally speaking, I am not impressed by Rana - despite him taking three wickets. If I were in a position to advise Miandad/Inzimam, I would suggest to stick with Shoaib, Sami and Shabbir attack, and just make sure the bowlers realize that they have to maintain a good line and length, and if they give away too many extras (wides and no balls) they will not find their position in the team as solid, as they'd like to think.

Our batting is just fine... Yasir and Imran should open. I have a suspicion that Yasir was bothered by his contacts and thus lost his concentration before getting bowled. Imran was quite fluent. Youhanna, Inzi and Younis should anchor the innings, while Razzler, Moin and Malik will be the lower-middle order. Shoaib, Shabbir, Sami, Malik and Razzler will be the core bowlers, and Imran and Yasir should bowl a total of 3-6 overs amongst themselves, in case Razzler and Malik get hit too badly.

There is no need to make large scale changes, just because we lost one nail-biting match.

46

I will disagree here. Razzler is in team for what reason can anyone tell me ? He has been a failure (in bowling) for last two years. He and Azhar has lost their charm badly. We need bowling allrounder (if there is any) not batting allrounder. We have tones of options in batting, if those specialists can't do it these allrounder won't do it either.

Malik is off colors too. He needs to collect himsel. Mostly he was flat.

Rana saheb has no place in the game when we have shabbir and Rao Iftikhar sitting out there. Although I must say, beside his first over, he bowled intelligently. He made batsman do mistakes. A c&b of Gangs is a clear indication how he laid mind battle with the batsmen. We need this kind of wise bowling from our main strikers.

If Sami didn't deliver in next two matches, I see his future dark. He is too much after pace. Its aint helping him.

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We have tonnes of options in batting (?) but exactly how many of them have experience of batting in the last 10 overs of a pressure cooker match? Probably none. Its funny how soon we forgot Razzlers inning against NZ. I don't think it was too long ago, either. Anyway, I believe Razzler is head and shoulders above other options we have, due to sheer talent and experience, and I am glad our selectors agree. :)

Re: Malik, I think he was the most economical amongst all our bowlers, which is even more remarkable bcz Indians are very good players of spin. He didn't pick wickets, thought. And if he is insepid, then it may be a good move to bring in Afridi. Afridi's bowling, as far as I remember was funky, with nothing brilliant about it. His fielding is a definite advantage.. and in his batting... well, if anything he brings a lot of unpredictibility to our batting line-up. Yes, so he fails 90% of the time, but in 10% cases he can single-handedly destroy a bowling attack.. and neither we, nor the Indians know when that fierce attack would take place. The guy has strong wrists and a nutty head... an almost irresistable combination for a slugger in ODI's. :)

48

Take out Razzaq??
Come on now guys, he might be the best #6 or 7 batsman in the world. The guy is one of the best hitters of the ball in the world. It is just sheer stupidity on the part of our management that they would rely on him for 10 overs of bowling, he just is'nt capable of that anymore.
Yassir is too talented to be taken out, I might change my mind if he struggles in this next game. At some point, Nazir and Umar should probably get a chance.
Also, it will be huge to get Shabbir back. That is just massive for us, if he bowls at full stregnth. Getting Laxman instead of Badani in teh line up for India is no big deal - at least not till the tests.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
We have tonnes of options in batting (?) but exactly how many of them have experience of batting in the last 10 overs of a pressure cooker match?

[/QUOTE]

Youhana, Inzi, Moin and on a lesser note, Shoaib Malik.

I'm glad you mentioned that innings against NZ Faisal bhai. His selection at the moment (and possibly for a while longer) is riding on that performance. If he had not played that innings, I would be hard-pressed to recall any other decent performance in the recent past to advocate his selection in the playing eleven.

He has the talent and capability no doubt, but valuable contributions to Pakistan's cause are few and far in between. I'd rather go with more firepower for those ten overs than having a dead duck of a bowler that can quack up some quick batting fireworks every 10 odd games or so.

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Diablo Kazama: *

Youhana, Inzi, Moin and on a lesser note, Shoaib Malik.

I'm glad you mentioned that innings against NZ Faisal bhai. His selection at the moment (and possibly for a while longer) is riding on that performance. If he had not played that innings, I would be hard-pressed to recall any other decent performance in the recent past to advocate his selection in the playing eleven.

He has the talent and capability no doubt, but valuable contributions to Pakistan's cause are few and far in between. I'd rather go with more firepower for those ten overs than having a dead duck of a bowler that can quack up some quick batting fireworks every 10 odd games or so.
[/QUOTE]

You spoke my words. Thats true, consistancy is what we are lacking in our team. Beside Shabbir I don't see any player delivering in (almost) every game. Having said that Inzi, Farhat and Yoyo are improving. But Yonis Khan, Malik, Sami and Razzler are very inconsistant in recent times.

One big knock in every 5th game doesn't make one a great hitter. Razzler has been a failed bowler for quite some times. I think Afridi/Inzi/Farhat/hameed can bowl 10 or more overs. India is doing it so why not us? Believe me it will not be as bad as Razzler's thukaaee at all. Perhaps it could slow down the thrashing if we rotate our non-regulars with Rao and Shabbir. It will be a good mind game for Indian middle order and we can have couple of wickets in that mad rotations in which the openent batsman couldn't get much time to understand one bowler and the varieties.

Playing plain (no swings) medium pacer in the middle over means, ur offering cake to the Indian middle order. Look at Naveed (despite of his first over) he did frustrate the batsman once he straigtened his line and length. He was getting thrashed as our worldclass regulars were, so whats the big deal. But he was concerntrating on his line and length and hence was able to catch his piece of pie...3 wickets. Remember Gangulee's expressions when he was c&b by ganja. Its called distraction in batsman's mind which you do with your consistant length, a little jerk there in that rythem earns you a wicket. Shabbir is master in this area.

On the other hand our brainless speedsters don't believe in such things. All they want to see is 90mps+ on speed gun.

51

No Razzaq, Yasir Hameed, Younis Khan should not be taken out of the regular lineup. This team should be allowed to gel and play for more than 2games before people start screaming for change.

Yasir Hameed owns one of the fastest 1000 run marks. One of the future stars on our team when some of the senior guys are gone.

Razzaq is still a huge threat in the lineup. He is still relatively young.

Younis Khan is a player who is more than capable of getting boundaries and more importantly get singles and double when the oppostion is putting more fielders at the boundaries.

It's about time that this team get some stability. You can't get that by crushing the confidence of young players.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zoab_Khan: *
No Razzaq, Yasir Hameed, Younis Khan should not be taken out of the regular lineup. This team should be allowed to gel and play for more than 2games before people start screaming for change.
[/QUOTE]
^ Exactly. Too many of us just wanna make changes after just one defeat... and it was a very close finish, by the way. Our main failure was our bowling... and look at the culprits... Sami, Razzler and Rana sahab.. all of them gave 70+ runs.

Sami: I'd stick with him solely because I don't who else we have.

Razzler: I'd retain purely on his class and reliability once our top-order crashes, and we need slog in the dying overs.

Rana: I just didn't get excited about the guy... I saw his whole spell... and he did nothing special, and his figures overdo his worth. I'd bring Shabbir back in a heart-beat. Rana should keep playing domestic cricket along with Junaid Zia.

Shoaib Malik: He was the most economical.. but didn't get any wickets. If we want to experiment, replace him with Afridi.

No other change is warranted, at this point, IMO.

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Laxman returns for India](BBC SPORT | Cricket | Pakistan level series)

Second one-day international, Rawalpindi: Pakistan v IndiaMatch begins 0900 GMT

In-form batsman VVS Laxman is expected back in the India line-up to face Pakistan in the second one-day international in Rawalpindi.

Laxman, who sat out Saturday’s opening match with a knee injury, will boost further a touring side that totalled 349-7 before squeaking a five-run win.

But India coach John Wright would rather welcome an experienced bowler back after his side conceded the largest ever total by a side batting second in a one-day international.

Anil Kumble, Ajit Agarkar and Harbhajan Singh are all missing the tour through injury and opening bowler Zaheer Khan is yet to return to form.

“Bowling is an area we have to work on,” said Wright. "We are giving away too many runs.

“Kumble and Harbhajan are not here and there’s no point thinking about how useful they could have been,” Wright added.

Laxman, who hit three one-day centuries on the recent tour of Australia, is expected to replace Hemang Badani in the only change to the visiting XI.

Pakistan welcome fast bowler Shabbir Ahmed back from a finger injury but coach Javed Miandad, refused to confirm his line-up.

Miandad spent the weekend working with his bowlers, who conceded 20 no balls in the opening loss.

“It’s good to have Shabbir back but we will finalise our team only on Tuesday afternoon,” he said.

“There was little to choose from the two sides at Karachi and this should be another good game. But we have to be more disciplined in our bowling.”

Fiery fast bowler Shoaib Akhtar believes the bowlers will gain more assistance on his home ground.

And the Rawalpindi Express hopes to celebrate his 100th one-day international with victory over Pakistan’s arch-rivals.

“It’s an honour to reach a milestone but I will celebrate only if can help my team win,” he said.

He deflected criticism that he was expensive in taking 2-55 on Saturday, saying: "The wicket at Karachi was a belter.

“There will be more help for the bowlers here in Rawalpindi and I am totally focussed on keeping the runs down.”

India (from): Sourav Ganguly (capt), Rahul Dravid, Virender Sehwag, Sachin Tendulkar, Venkatsai Laxman, Yuvraj Singh, Mohammad Kaif, Hemang Badani, Parthiv Patel, Zaheer Khan, Laxmipathy Balaji, Irfan Pathan, Ashish Nehra, Murali Kartik, Ramesh Powar.

Pakistan (from): Inzamam-ul Haq (capt), Yousuf Youhana, Shahid Afridi, Imran Farhat, Yasir Hameed, Younis Khan, Misbahul Haq, Shoaib Malik, Abdul Razzaq, Moin Khan, Rana Naveedul Hassan, Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Sami, Saqlain Mushtaq, Rao Iftikhar, Shabbir Ahmed.

Umpires: Simon Taufel (AUS) and Asad Rauf (PAK)

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Nehra is out of the ODI tomorrow because of an injury, so probably Pathan will play.

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‘Things will be different tomorrow’

Anand Vasu in Rawalpindi

March 15, 2004

After the runfest at Karachi, those looking for scapegoats turned towards the bowlers. India’s attack, already identified as the weak link, came in for special scrutiny. “Is this the weakest Indian bowling attack ever?” one journalist asked Javed Miandad ahead of the second one-dayer at Rawalpindi. “No, I have seen weaker Indian attacks before!” replied Miandad in a jiffy, without even pausing to think. “Previously, they used to rely on spinners, now it’s good that at least they are more pace-oriented. By the same token, just because they had one bad day doesn’t mean [Shoaib] Akhtar and [Mohammad] Sami are bad bowlers.” As always, Miandad had plenty to say:

Javed Miandad: no ifs and buts © Suhael Ahmed

On whether the result would have been different if Miandad been at the crease to face Ashish Nehra’s last ball: You can’t repeat the same thing all the time. I don’t believe in agar aur magar [ifs and buts]. What really bothers me is that we got so close to winning, and yet we couldn’t win. It’s okay if you lose by a big margin, but the disappointment is that much more when you get close. When you give yourself an opportunity to win and don’t grab it, that is disturbing.

On what the loss means to the way the series is poised: That’s what the game of cricket is all about. Things can change so dramatically. I was happy that the boys fought hard, but I felt bad when the match slipped out of our hands. You realise now you could have been 1-0 up and instead, you are 0-1 down.

On why he was gesticulating wildly in the last few overs of the match: A lot of the players are inexperienced. I was just trying to help them out. When I played my cricket, that’s the way I played it. I didn’t just go out and play, a lot of planning went into what I did. That’s the way I played and it worked for me, so why should I change my style now? More than in the nets, if you can get a message across in a match situation, it tends to stay on in the minds of the younger players. It’s fine for people to criticise me, but why don’t they give me credit for the amount of hard work I put in at the nets?

On the suggestion that Pakistan might have been a bowler short: We have five quality bowlers. If we can’t have big expectations from them and if we can’t expect them to curb the Indian batsmen, even eight bowlers won’t be enough. The Indian batsmen have played together for a long time. They all contribute singly and as a team.

On the much-hyped Indian batting line-up: The Indian batsmen take responsibility upon themselves. That should be the attitude. Every player has a 200% responsibility towards his team. All good players only go forward only if they take responsibility and respond to situations. We had a good session yesterday and another good one today. We worked on our no-balls and wides, on our line and length – I am sure you will see something different tomorrow. InshaAllah

Link

57

ok i know i,ll getting a lot of anday tamatar for saying this,,, but rana naved ul hasan seemed like a pretty decent bowler... I mean okay he stuffed up in the first over... but overall he was impressive and confident after the first over. Everyone is talking about dropping him... I,d give him another chance,, but I think he would be dropped though. He looks talented and i,ve heard hes a handy batsman as well.

Khair,,, about afridi,, i,d say afridi's style of hitting is only effective in the first 15 overs, so if it was upto me,, if afridi was to play, it would be as an opener only. I dont think hes suited to lower order hitting.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by earthquake: *

there isn't anyone else can replace him, Azhar is worse then him and we have seeen Rana... do you know anyone else? Qaiser Abbas, Bilal Asad?

I think PCB can bring Waqar Younis back if Sami is not going to be able to perform.
[/QUOTE]

bilal asad is very good, n i think sami shud be replaced by shabbir

59

I agree. Rana only had problem in 1st over, that was probably because of the pressure and inexperience, after that he got over it and controlled the ball much better than Sami. Sami has been a waste, an occasional shiner, same reason Afridi was dropped i.e. shine in 1 out of 10-12 matches. The way Sami bowls is effective more in Tests than ODIs.

I have been wanting to drop Sami for at least 2 games just to prove to him that his seat is not a given thing, he needs to work for it. Just think about it, Navedul Hasan bowled in a pressure game but still managed to grab 3 wickets earlier in the inning, while Sami couldn’t do anything until the damage was already done in last overs. Look at the experience of two and Naved comes better (less or no experience still performed better).

Shoaib Malik should be dropped as well. He hasn’t done any thing useful in batting no matter how explosive he “can be”. Instead we could bring another all rounder like Afridi :smack: or a full time spinner like Saqlain.

60

^
atleast malik bowled better than all other bowlers....

and the 3 wickets by naweed were not due to his o-so-great bowling but rather a sure thing to come by looking at how the game was going on....