Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

so much analysis! had he done that..had we done that...lol

bottom line is we have a mental block..had India batted first, we wouldn't be able to chase...and when we bat first, we can't defend ...

I almost guarantee that had hafeez put India to bat first and they ended up scoring 180+ and we could not chase it, these very guppies would be cursing him for batting second ... come on .... be honest and stop this " had he done this" and "had he done that" type analysis...if you are losing every match to them in every world cup in every possible scenario (batting first, batting second, scored 340 and still lost, contained them to 260 and still lost etc) it is a mental block and you need to work on that...

and those who are accusing hafeez for a weak captaincy.....well, i ask them what else could he have done dramatically different.... put 3 slips? with such a pathetic score on board, what else could be done..you have pathetic fast bowlers..how many nicks were there? how many catches Indians produced.. not many if any.....he was too defensive?....well please dont use this term unless you provide some categorical examples.....there was a slip for raza, ajmal and for gul through out in first 12 overs...fact is there was nothing on baord...indians did not need to take any chance...they played mostly on ground.....and frankly spekaing you have pretty ordinary bowling attack except ajmal.. and I have been saying this for a while now.... minus ajmal this is a pathetic attack hardly good enough for T20s..forget 50 overs and test matches.

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Thats the spirit cheetay:k:

unfortunately we feel the same way too :smiley:

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Lol, if this is the case then these guys will have hard time concentrating in IPL :smiley:

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

lol..you solved the mystery!

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

come on yaarr...give me a break....I almost guarantee that had hafeez put India to bat first and they ended up scoring 180+ and we could not chase it, these very guppies would be cursing him for batting second saying that fully knowing pak is pathetic chaser, why did hafeez tahe that gamble and bowled first?

..lets face it..Pakistan simply couldn't handle the pressure.....it was a perfect batting pitch...and if we were shaking batting first when there was no pressure of chasing what makes you think, we would have done better batting second under pressure......so lets cut the crap and admit....we need some serious psychological training playing in tense matches esp against india...

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

a great analysis by a poster on another forum...that is the kind of analysis I was talking about and one should expect when you are losing against an opponent in every high pressure environment for so many years.... and why focus on "against india" only? we have a known as poor chasers against any team, which again goes back to the same symptom... "mentally weak"....it is not just about "had he put two more slips" had he batted second"...had we done that" etc....we have lost in every possible scenario against India in every WC..so yes we should keep an eye on tactical weaknesses of the match, but we should at least admit that the root cause is somewhere else and try to address, if we can...

*"Unlike Pakistan, India has been fortunate to have had some great players of 'stature' to carry the baton forward and to mentor the mental and cricketing abilities of young players. Which is why it is crucial to let some senior 'iconic' players to continue on in the team.

Its not that the Kohlis just spring out of nowhere overnight. They are well served by observing, playing with, and sharing the dressing room with players like Sachin, Dravid, Kumble etc. That India has a more organized domestic cricket organization and infrastructure helps hone youngsters even more.

Unfortunately several of the current crop of young players of team Pakistan have not had the luxury of playing alongside Akram, Waqar, Inzi, or even Mohammed Yousuf. The Pak teams of the 70s and 80s had several iconic players to mentor youngsters coming in through the ranks. Players of 'stature' like Imran, Zaheer Abbas, Miandad, Mudassar Nazar, Wasim Bari. Wasim and Waqar learnt a lot from Imran. I remember Imran walking up to Wasim after each ball and speaking with him and showing him which way to grip the ball with respect to the seam. He did this practically after each ball Akram bowled in his initial matches.

Inzi was the last link of that great chain that dates back to the 80s and 70s. Afridi could have been another link to continue that chain. However, despite the initial promise, he has failed to live up to expectations (though most Pakistanis still consider him a legend and revere him as 'The Beast').

That leaves team Pakistan as a revolving door of ever changing captains who lead a team of several ex captains. Very rare to find a few 'iconic' players who form a stable core of this team around which to groom and crystallize the cricketing and mental strength of younger players"*

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

one more thing....and i know i am in minority but i do think that IPL has done one good thing to young Indian cricketers...it has allowed them to play a lot of tense matches with great international cricketers thus making them mentally more stronger...international cricket is all about nerves

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

I disagree with this analysis, why did we lose against India when Inzi, Wasim, Waqar were in the team? Mohammad Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, Kamran Akmal, Umar Gul, Imran Nazir have played alongside with Inzamam, haven't they?

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Actual international games and playing with international players is lot different in my opinion, why did India not win rest of T20I championships?

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Absolutely agree with this analysis… it’s reasoning I’ve maintained for a very long time myself.

Additionally, I feel that the lack of mentorship itself is an outcome in the cause-effect chain. In my mind, the cause is attributed to the sensibilities and attitudes of players. The cause is that our team has always been ridden with divisive politics, seniority complex, and a sense of entitlement. The cause is a lack of education and literacy that leads to broad-mindedness.

This is the one big difference between Pakistan and India! The Indian team has had its own share of problems, but on the whole, it has been relatively more stable and senior players haven’t had major issues playing for and alongside junior colleagues – all the while grooming them, supporting them and mentoring them.

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

I didn't say that we would have won for sure but it might have given us a better chance. Recent history shows that India (Pak could not even defend 300 odd against India in Asia Cup) and Australia would chase down any reasonable total 80% of the time (a point also noted by my cricket-crazy cousin). Hence better to bat second against these teams and hope that you don't implode under pressure. *The moment SA batted first against Australia today, I knew they would lose
*

Re. mental toughness my conclusion is the same i.e. Pak players are mentally weak (cf. SA players)

I guess what I am trying to say is that India and Australia are even more dangerous sides when they are chasing a total

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

I don't disagree there but Pakistan's main problem is their batting which is very unpredictable and inconsistent. Batting is the key in limited overs cricket. India's bowling isn't special either but they have got the batters who can consistently set or chase 170+/- totals. We all know about English players' problems against spin but the same bowlers struggled against Australia and even Afghanistan

Look at SA for instance. They have arguably one of the best pace attacks in world cricket but even they could not defend modest totals against Pakistan (ok they were denied by a freakish knock by Gul) and Australia.

The bottomline is you need to put runs on the board and give your bowlers a decent total (170+/-) to defend. Even the best bowling can't defend modest 140+/- totals 80% of the time

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Lots of ifs and buts and could have beens and should have beens. I would also have liked to see us bat second on this pitch. However, bottom line remains the same that our batsmen choked under pressure. Leading from the top was Hafeez who played even worse than Misbah could have, was even more defensive in his approach. Virat could have been gone to Afridi twice had there were any aggressive field placings. But I dont know why Hafeez thought he is defending 170 rather than 120 and allowed easy singles etc.

Anyways I hope he learns from this and become a better captain as a result.

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

hahah :omg:

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

**
Congratulations Indian team and fans. well done**

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Pakistani team: try to put effort (or more effort) next time....may be. thanks

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Unfortunately you guys can go home tomorrow too :smiley:

Re: Pakistan v India - ICC WT20 2012 Super 8 Match

Perhaps we're reading too much into it. The simple fact is Pakistan's batsmen tried too hard and imploded. They got carried away with emotion and didn't use their brains. After a good start (26/1 after 2 overs), they needed to build on it by keeping wickets in hand and rotating the strike intelligently rather than just trying to hit every ball. This was their major undoing.

The importance of singles and doubles seems to be lost on our batsmen. It is not just about hitting 4s and 6s even in T20 cricket. And we play too many dot balls. If you play 53 dot balls in a 120-ball game then you are always going to struggle to post a good competitve total

Look at Sri Lanka for instance. Dilshan and co. scored 12 runs in their super over against NZ without hitting a single boundary!