Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Pakistan should ask the mayor of Kabul to pay some of the costs of fencing the border, after all he must be receiving his share of the poppy loot.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
The Musharraf govt’s decision is causing heartache for Karzai because it will also end forever his country’s ethnic expansionst plans, and stop them creating separatist terrorism in Pakistan.
Govt decision to seal border may yield ‘historic’ benefits
Not only is the government’s decision to fence and lay mines at the Pakistan-Afghanistan border aimed at confirming the Durand Line as an international border, but is also likely to give it certain “historic” benefits. Besides minimising the number of incursions made by Taliban and Al Qaeda elements across the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, the government”s decision will deprive those involved in an insurgency in Balochistan of a hideout and launching pad for their operations. The decision, which is being opposed by opposition parties, particularly the Awami National Party of the late Wali Khan, will also help bury the bogey of “Greater Pushtoonistan” for ever. The government’s decision also suggests that the country will no longer look towards the traditional support of tribesmen living on both sides of the border in the event of a clash with India. These tribesmen actively participated in the Kashmir war of 1948 and also contributed men to the Pakistan Army in its war with India. But the chances of a war with India are diminishing owing to the confidence-building measures between the two countries and the Indian government’s recent offer of a peace and friendship treaty with Pakistan.
General Ayub Khan, it may be recalled, made an effort to resolve the issue of the Durand Line with Afghanistan in January 1959. In a meeting with Prince Naeem of the Afghan ruling family, Ayub Khan recounted that the original Durand Line agreement arrived at in 1893 was confirmed in 1905, reaffirmed in the Anglo-Afghan Treaty of 1919, and finally endorsed when the ruling family in Afghanistan came to power. Ironically, Afghanistan was the only country that opposed Pakistan’s admission to the United Nations, Ayub Khan reportedly told the Afghan prince. During Ayub’s time a serious effort was also made to integrate the tribal areas into the rest of the country. Some progress was made towards improvement in agriculture and setting up of small industries. But no real progress could be brought about in those areas as the general left it to political agents and maliks, not to the people, to decide what particular development schemes they wanted to adopt. However, most such government agents found the Ayub initiative a serious threat to their centuries-old rule and no development could take place in those areas. An understanding on this issue was also reached between Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who was prime minister in the 1970s, and President Sardar Daud of Afghanistan in 1976. If both had not been deposed subsequently, the border issue would have been decided much before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Another such opportunity arose several months before the first tenure of Benazir Bhutto as prime minister. While in opposition, Benazir had urged the Junejo government in Pakistan that the Geneva Accords, then about to be signed, should incorporate the understanding reached between Daud and Bhutto in 1976 which definitively confirmed the Durand Line as the international border between the two countries. However, the Geneva Accords did not contain the provision. However, General Zia and Mr Junejo had different perspectives on the Geneva Accords and did not put up a united front in Geneva.
Thus President Musharraf’s claim is plausible that it is under his rule that the Pakistan Army has entered all tribal agencies for the first time ever to build roads and foster economic development and that his ultimate goal is to integrate the tribal areas politically into the NWFP.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\12\31\story_31-12-2006_pg7_22
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Not all Afghans wear chap-paans; they are traditionally worn by the northern Uzbek/Tajiks. They are worn over the tunic (qameez) and loose pants (shalwar). Karzai's attire comprises of elements from different ethnic/geographical groups: chap-paan is from the North; kakual (lamb wool) cap is from the South; shalwar-qameez is worn by pashtuns. He wants to symbolize tribal/afghan unity in his attire.
In terms of utility, chap-paan is equivalent to a western top-coat or a trench-coat -- worn over clothes for warm weather.
Our sherwani is a bit ceremonial whereas you'd see an Afghan elder wearing a chap-paan to the friday prayer (over his business/business casual clothes).
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Nice article silly billy..
Parsistan/Daristan (aka sh!tistan) are still dream of stealing our Baluchistan, NWFP and FATA .. Bloody fools, they should worry about cleaning up the mines in their country which will take another 20 years and go to hell whilst they're trying to do it.
The fencing and the mining are a wonderful idea and the first proper step to ending this Loy-Afghonestan BULLCRAP (I shouldn't say Afghanistan because it's not, it's Parsistan) and secondly Pakistan should adopt the Kemalist policy of assimilation of non-Desi ethnic groups in the western regions of our country by encourage the settling of Urdu/Punjabi speaking people in those areas, encouraging inter-marriage and discouraging all languages other than Urdu. I think Gwadar is a good step, we need to secure port areas by settling those loyal to Pakistan in those areas.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
I diagree 100%, there is absolutely no need for 'punjabi' speaking people to settle in these areas. its people liek you who realy make me angry. My Pakis, do you even know that most people in are not actually anti-pakistan but most(im talking 100% full-blooded pashtuns) are usually anti-afghans(belive me go to any city in NWFP and ask a pakistani national pashtun what they think of afghans), but this policy of settlign punjabees in those areas is going to create nothign more than an ethnic divide. Mr. PP it seems as if you ahve never actually been to these areas, most people here can speak urdu fluently, so there is absolutely NO NEED of punjabies to be 'settled' in these areas.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Haha, using punjabis to teach pushtuns Urdu? Of all the stupidest things I've read, this has to be in my top 10 list. Punjabis should first learn how to speak Urdu properly before trying to ruin other people's Urdu.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
That's true. I was in Quetta last year and I noted that there was a lot of anti-Afghan sentiment amongst Pakistani Pashtuns.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
I think Pakistan has a right to establish whatever security measures necessary for itself. Perhaps the fencing and mining will be done along the uninhabited areas along the border where normal people who want to keep up with family relations would not be found crossing borders. The checkpoints can be setup in those areas where tribes inhabit the border.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Hey Punjabis speak bari achi Urdu mera dost… We just speak Punjabi better:)
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Most og the Pathans on this forum dont seem to fit that description for some reason.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Maybe they are in denial, or maybe some are just Afghans? But I have seen on the ground in places like Quetta and Peshawar amongst other places, how much resentment their is against Afghans from Pakistani Pashtuns especially.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Any ideas why that might be?
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Yeah, I have met some die hard patriots amongst the Pathans myself… Sometimes they tend to be more zealous then I am.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Most of the so-called 'pashtuns' who talk alot of stuff of anti-pakistan stuff are actually Afghan citizens, and alot of them arent even pashtun but rather native dari speakers who have developed alot of anti-pakistan sentiment because Pakistan supported the taliban(which was 100% pasthun) regime, and most of the Afghans dont even live in Afganistan, and are rather expats living in western countries. And alot of them are very uninformed, for example this Afghan once tried to claim Kashmir should become part of afghanistan because Kashmir has historically been a part of afganistan! And then they try to claim anythign that doesnt support what they say(anything!) as 'propaaganda'(the fghan then tried to state that ppl who say Kashmir wasnt a part of afganistan were brainwashed!!!
And about the sutiation of what pakistani pashtusn think of afghans, just go to ANY pashtun city in nwfp or balochistan, and ask your selves and theyll tell you. Alot have resentment towards afghans because they bring illegal goods(charas, afyum, heroin etc etc) and are very much involved in things like kidnaping, extortion etc.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Pakhtuns are great people and they love Pakistan, their country. If you think about it, they are the only race in Pakistan that has sucesfully integrated in all parts of Pakistan with success. For instance in my city of Islamabad, you can see all sorts of Pakhtuns, from very rich businessmen to simple ones owning small shops.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Yes, Pashtuns are entirely integrated into Pakistani society, and in fact in many cases they are the leading members of it. For example, although Pashtuns represent about 12-13% of Pakistan's population they are something like 25% of our armed forces. A great deal of our Generals are Pashtuns, many became Chiefs of the Army, and others long serving Presidents of Pakistan.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Shaukat Aziz in Kabul for talks… I wonder if Karzai will beg for the fence and minefield not to be built? 
Pakistan’s Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz is in Kabul for talks with the Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
Relations between the two countries have been strained in recent days after Pakistan said it intended to build a fence and place mines along the border.
Islamabad says this will restrict the movement of Taleban fighters.
President Karzai says the fence will not prevent militants crossing the border, but will only separate Pashtun tribes and families.
Despite their many shared security challenges, diplomatic niceties are rarely observed between these two neighbours.
President Karzai has repeatedly expressed his frustration at what he considers to be Pakistan’s failure to crack down on Taleban militants operating within Pakistan’s borders.
And Pakistan’s President, Pervez Musharraf, has made the feud personal by suggesting that Mr Karzai is in control of little more than his capital, Kabul.
So the visit by the Pakistan prime minister perhaps ought to be one of mending diplomatic fences.
But within this climate of mistrust, it is hard to see progress on the vital issue that affects both countries and the wider region - that of how to effectively control and contain Taleban forces on their remote mountain border.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Still no agreement… But then I didnt expect anything from them…
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
Nope, a lot of them are Indians, though they pick up a couple of Pashto phrases from forums (like this one). I doubt even the Dari speakers in that area even support them.
Re: Pakistan to Fence and Mine Border with Afghanistan (merged)
With all the back and forth are we creating a future problem for innocent people, children and cattle getting mired in minefields? Fence may be, why mines?