Pakistan team selection and performance:

@phoenixdesi… sorry, but after watching pathetic performance of Pakistan I went to sleep and could not reply you. Anyhow, please try to understand what I am saying and think unbiased (this is true for all Pakistanis that if they care for Pakistan, they should stop biases and think).

Important thing is that, if team was selected on merit and there was no reason for people to say that team is selected on Parchi, than ‘win or lose’, one could not have said anything. Something that happens most of the time when SL, NZ, Aus or SA loses. If they lose, people know that team is there on merit (no biases, tassub or parchi) but they failed to compete, hence lost the match. So:

Q: Why things are different with Pakistan?

Q: Why, even if Pakistan wins, we (many, including me) believe that this team is not based on merit and is Parchi team?

Q: Why people can quote un-disputable figures (players’ performance data) to show that team is selected on Parchi, connections, contacts, regional biases and so on?

Answer is that, there are many reasons, that not only me but many others, including players themselves can see that team is not selected on merit.

Secondly, you are right that some players are in team who deserve to be in team, but when most of the team are not selected on merit, once in team, they start developing their lobby, as they know that their performance is no guarantee to stay in team. Once they have their lobby, they damn care about performance as now they know they would stay. This introduced politics in team, because it is need for players to keep getting selected and playing.

Players getting selected and once selected, not staying in team on performance, most talented players outside the team never makes the team and thus confidence on merit evaporates. Players playing domestic cricket know that their performance would never going to be criteria to get selected, hence they give up on hard work. Thus, situation of team is effecting Pakistan in creating good players.

Anyhow, saying all this, I would not justify what I wrote, if I could not give any solution.

Solution is simple: ‘Auto Selection processes’ with minimum human decision making and interference.

Further: Teams of all 3 format (Test, ODI and T20I) should be different.

Test team should be based on performance of players in First class.
ODI team should be based on performance of players in ‘list A’
T20I team should be based on performance of players in Twenty20

Selection process: Each format should have players domestic ranking based on their performance figures. Domestic ranking should take into account matches in last 2 years (so that current performance be criteria of selection). It should also see how many runs a player made (for instance, minimum runs = 500) and how many overs player bowled (for instance, min = 100 overs). These domestic ranking should be of several types:

Ranking of batsmen …

Test: Averages
ODI: Ave and SR … could be based on (Ave x SR)
T20I: Ave and SR (where Ave has to be over 20).

Ranking of Bowlers:
Test: Ave per wicket
ODI: Ave per wkt and ER (could be
T20I: Ave per wkt and ER.

All Rounder: Players’ batting average has to be better than bowling average.

Than there should be extra points for fielding and age.

After that, players combined ranking formula has to be made, what all should know and calculate. From that ranking, players should be chosen from top. No interference or personal choice of selector.

So, for batsmen slot, player with highest average should be chosen … same with other departments.

Best would be: Once chosen, they would only get specified guaranteed innings to perform and maintain the figures:

For batsmen, their figures should get re-assessed after getting out 5 times.
For bowlers: Their figures would be re-assessed after X number of overs

And so on.

Now, let me give you co-relation between domestic cricket and international cricket (some believe there is no co-relation).

First of all, domestic cricket should be only criteria for selection to national team, as here players’ performance can be judged best way with respect to each other. If A can have average of 40 in domestic than has to be better than B whose average in domestic cricket is below 40. Simple as that.

Secondly, let me give you average of some top players’ (who continuously played in team) domestic performance with their international performance (as it always converges over long term). I would stick to batting performance only. One can check other areas if one wants to.

Pakistani players (top performers):
[TABLE]

Players
FC
Test

List A
ODi

Miandad
53
53

43
42

Inzamam
50
50

38
40

M Yousuf
47
52

40
41

Younis K
51
53

33
31

Misbah
51
49

47
43

S Anwer
45
45

38
39

Salim M
46
44

36
33

You can check other players and would see similar co-relation. Performance in domestic and International level over long run are close to each other.

International players (top performers):
[TABLE]

Players
FC
Test

List A
ODi

De-villiar
51
52

51
52

Amla
52
53

48
56

Tandulkr
47
52

45
45

Kholi
58
54

51
52

Viv Rich
49
50

42
47

Lara
52
53

40
40

Sangakara
51
58

42
41

Jy-wardne
50
50

33
33

R Ponting
56
52

42
42

M Clarke
48
50

43
45

K Piet-sen
49
47

41
41

Ian Bell
46
45

40
37

You can check other players and would see similar co-relation. Performance in domestic and International level over long run are close to each other.

So, there is nothing wrong in what I am saying. Still, even if performance figures of domestic level and international level were not similar, still, this is the only way team should be selected, as there is no reason that performance of a player ‘A’ at domestic cricket should be worse than player ‘B’ but he is expected to play better at international level, hence he should get preference over B.

Further things become complicated, when selection is not made even when players international performance is better than other player and still he is dropped.

For instance:

Fawad Alam ODI ave is 45 and SR is 75 … dropped.
Misbah (best Pakistani batsmen in ODI playing) ODI ave is 43 and SR is 73 … still he is playing.

Leave other players like Younis Khan, Ahmed Shahzad, UA, Hafiz, etc … as none of these players have average above 35 and SR above 75.

Younis (ave: 31, SR 75)
Ahmed Shahzad (Ave 34, SR 71).
UA (Ave 35, SR 86)
Hafiz (Ave 31, SR 73)

Now, if that would happen, than it is obvious that trust on performance would end.

Just imagine, both Bilawal and Anwer Ali were given break in ODI.

In domestic cricket ‘list A’ both averages 33 runs per wicket and has ER of 5.2.
Anwer’s batting ‘list A’ performance (ave = 25) is obviously better than Bilawal (Ave = 13)

At international exposure, Anwer Ali performance was still much better than Bilawal, both with bat and ball.
Anwer ODI average = 29 … Bilawal ODI average = 15

Anwer took wickets at average of 68.4 with ER = 5.5
Bilawal took wicket at average of 73.2 with ER = 6.4

So, why discriminate?

Anwer performed better than Bilawal, still Bilawal got chance in test.

Anwer performance was better than ODI, still Bilawal was chosen for ODI world cup.

Why?

All this discrimination, biases, and personal likes and dislikes would go, if selection would be automated using well defined performance criteria based on domestic cricket. With Anwer around, team cannot have Bilawal, as one can see their performance. If Fawad around, one cannot have other players in the team as batsmen whose performance are worse than Fawad (and figures confirms that). If that would not happen, than we cannot say that so-called Pakistani team is really Pakistani team (regardless of they win or lose).

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

I don't think anyone would disagree that there should be a system in place to have players selected, like in Australia where mighty Ponting and Clarke have to sit out..

This is the only way to keep the players fit and consistent. Formlua however can differ.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

^^^ You are right, there has to be a system based on performance, that everyone can see and work out. It would have several advantage.

1: No one can say that a players is due to Parchi or discrimination, as performance figures would speak and all would be able to see.

2: If any player gets dropped from team, than no one could say that he is wrongly dropped. (One cannot fulfil the required performance in last 5 completed innings, and would get dropped automatically).

3: Since criteria would be well defined, all players in country would know where they stand and how to get into team and would know that no one can keep them out unjustly.

4: Players would stop doing politics (in and out of team) and would be worried about their own performance, as, if they would be out of team they would know that only performance would get them in, and when they are in the team than they would know that they would be out if they under perform.

5: All ambiguity in selection would go, as performance figures would speak not selectors.

6: People (Pakistani population … awam) would be satisfied about team and would stop giving excuses or blaming anyone for bad performance of team … neither would be able to make anyone scape goat.

7: If all aspect of players’ performance would become criteria for evaluation and selection …. batting average, Strike rate, fielding, catches (negative points for catch dropped and positive for catch taken … negative for misfielding and positive for super fielding … efforts on ground … being part of winning team, performance as part time bowler, etc) … than Players would start taking their game seriously and would work hard.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

I would like to add one more thing though, if a batsman or bowler is not good enough/fit for test cricket, then rest assured he won't last long in One Day or T20, so it should be must for players to take part in List A and FC matches provided he in not playing international cricket for Pakistan at that particular moment. Anyone not been able to play or perform there, shouldn't be selected in the team.

Had UK, Afridi and others have continued their LA and FC matches, they might have learned the art of innings building, staying at the wicket and absorbing the pressure.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

Very good post Saleem..and thanks for posting. I just think, the whole team needs to be re-shuffled based on some sort of perfomance system..as you said. I am just surprised that..PCB dropped players that they shouldn't have.
I really hope, good comes out of Pak team..once they (cricket board) ponder over team selection.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

@Sa1eem Isnt Cheif Selector AND manager Moeen Khan from Karachi and supposed to be less biased especially with karachiittes' talent?

this is wut i posted in another thread on similar topic:

My biggest problem comes with Chief Selector plus Manager Moeen Khan. Just look at the dates, since the day this guy has been with Pakistani team, our team is down the road southwards. He has two titles, and the amount of greed is so enormous that he is not ready to give up one title. He wants to keep both and PCB management somehow is so humble in front of him and he's kinda blackmailing everyone.
The selection he's made..well its definitely in front of everyone.

So yes I totally agree that in PCB there is a group which is working like a Mafia. This body needs a total rebuild.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

Like everything else in Pakistan, authority and power in PCB does not come with responsibility.

If the selection committee and higher management knows that they would be fired if the team doesn't perform, they'd act differently. As of now, everything is based on "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours".

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

We need Saeed Ajmal, please have him added to the WC.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

Agreed merit should be the only criterion. To hell with regionalism and favouritism.

4 talented players unfairly ignored by PCB for the World Cup

Fawad Alam (should have been selected instead of Younis) Fawad Alam | Pakistan Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
Sami Aslam Sami Aslam | Pakistan Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo With a list A batting average of 49.63, why is this guy not already playing for Pakistan in ODIs?
Babar Azam Babar Azam | Pakistan Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
Sadaf Hussain Sadaf Hussain | Pakistan Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo With a list A bowling average of 18, why hasn’t he been given a chance yet?

Unless we give opportunities to proven List A performers, how can we move forward in ODIs?

Likewise First Class performance should be the criterion for test selection

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

^^^ You are right, how can a bowler like Sadaf Hussain, who has taken 247 wickets in 92 innings at an average of 18, ER of 2.95 and especially SR of 37 balls per wicket (reminds me of Waqar Younus) is not playing test for Pakistan when bowlers with average in 22 plus are in team?

Similarly, Sadaf Hussain with 57 wickets in 26 inning (that is over 2 wickets per inning) and that also at average of 18, having ER of 4.7 and especially SR of 22.8 balls per wicket is not in ODI, could not be acceptable?

Sadaf Hussain is probably the best Pakistani strike bowlers' figures I have seen. To not have him in test as well as ODI, and then complaining that Pakistan do not have bowlers is trying to hide nepotism, Perchi, and discrimination, taking advantage of ignorance in ordinary Pakistanis.

To me, after seeing the figures, Sadaf Hussain is much better bowler than Mohammed Aamir, Mohammed Asif or any player who bowled for Pakistan.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

What's happening with Abdul razzaq and shoaib malik? Shoaib malik is what, 33? Are they both out?

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

We are on it. Will let you know ASAP

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

I guess we can discuss who is left out of SQUAD all we can but they are not even making the selection right from the available players.

For life of me, I cant understand the reason to leave out

1) Sarfaraz: He is much better batsman than many who are in the side and he cant be worst keeper than Akmal, only a bit better.

2) Yasir Shah: Most of the teams knowing the importance of spinner, are filing a genuine spinner. We have taken one on the tour, just for the sake of tour and is not giving him any opportunity and that too with the potential of Yasir. Shane Warne almost go weak on his knees every time he is watching Yasir play.

Question should be WHO IS SELECTING THE PLAYING ELEVEN? is it Misbah by himself of its WAQAR and MOIN?

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

Usually its the tour selection committee which comprises of captain, coach and manager.
But whoever the hell takes responsiblity of doing it, must be held accountable for undesired results. Thats it.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

With Chief Selector right at Misbah's throat I'd think its more of Moin pushing the call.

Re: Pakistan team selection and performance:

I do not think you are right here. rather the question you have in your mind do not arise ... but let me say further.

Question one is that: Who selected '15 losers' that went to play world cup, and on what basis?

Obvious responsibility lies with selection committee, regardless of who was pulling the string. They are culprit and if they think they are not, then they should come in public and say 'how and why'?

Question two ... what you asked (selection of playing 11):

Here. responsible is captain, who decides with consultation of coach. Though decision is of Captain (Misbah). If Captain is incompetent and incapable to fire the shot, then he should come in public that he was just captain on paper and one firing the shot was X, Y or Z. If captain keeps quite than he has accepted the responsibility as well as blame for failure.

In the end, for all mishaps and show of incompetency that is happening in world cup, collective responsibility lies with PCB Chairman, officials, selection committee and captain of the team.

Though major responsibility lies with Selection committee and Captain for selecting an incompetent team on basis of personal likes/dislikes, recommendations or Parchi ... and major responsibility of selecting playing eleven lies with Captain (Misbah) and partially on team coach (Waqar).

As for Moin. I do not even know that on what capacity he is with the team. He is chief selector, and chief selector job is to select the team at home, not travel with the team, or decide who should be in playing 11.

If Moin is interfering in deciding who play than those responsible should not listen to him and tell him to shut up. If they don't then they are incompetent for the job as they have to take blame for others. Being Captain, coach, or Chairman Selection committee is paid job and are not volunteers job. Similarly, these thugs should know that they are representing national team, not private team.