Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

The “snub” is among the most potent weapons a diplomat has. It can be done to show displeasure with individuals, policies, histories, whatever. Do you think that the “Taleban” have somehow redeamed themselves? They were diplomatic pariahs when they ran Afghanistan because of their behavior and their policies. Only two countries in the world had formal diplomatic relations with the Taleban regime. To now expect a pro-Taleban representative to be greeted with open arms because he is Pakistani is sort of naive. Because the EU is aware that the Taleban movement is still alive and dangerous. Offering any type of legitmacy is just stupid. Democracy means people can elect whom ever they like. Accountability goes hand in hand with Democracy. Accountability says that the people who elected a leader will be accountable for their votes, and the leader accountable for his actions.

And by the way, people of the EU are not so stupid as to think that the Taleban have learned anything…

The ‘university of holy war’

By Haroon Rashid
BBC correspondent in North-West Frontier Province

The ceremony was adorned with pro-Taleban slogans
Its students and principal call it the University of Jihad (Holy War).

Last week the religious seminary of Darul Uloom Haqqania in Pakistan’s North-West Frontier Province turned out another class of young Pakistanis and Afghans ready to wage holy war against the enemies of their religion.

Among them was 15-year-old Afghan refugee, Javed Ullah.

“I wish to fight the infidels,” he said as he left the seminary in Akora Khattak, 50 kilometres (31 miles) east of the provincial capital, Peshawar.

Javed is among 600 students who have completed studies in different fields over the past year.

I will dedicate my whole life for jihad. I will kill enemies of Islam

Minhaj Uddin, student

Wearing white turbans and dress, all the new graduates looked satisfied and seemed to brim with hope for a bright future.

“I want to go back and fight the Americans,” Javed said wearing a garland. “I can’t wait anymore.”

His Pakistani classmates had a similar desire.

“I will dedicate my whole life for jihad. It is compulsory for Muslims. I will kill enemies of Islam,” said student Minhaj Uddin.

Mullah Omar’s words

The whole convocation was full of slogans in support of Afghanistan’s ousted Taleban regime, al-Qaeda’s leader Osama Bin Laden and holy war.

Students take a final oath at the graduation ceremony

Some of the banners adorning the seminary were decorated with pictures of Kalashnikov rifles and tanks.

In their speeches, teachers and religious scholars urged the students to put defending their faith before everything else.

“Being watchmen of your religion, you are naturally the first target of your enemies,” said Maulana Sami ul-Haq, the principal of the seminary.

In the past, some Taleban officials, themselves graduates of the institution, have attended these convocations.

Even Taleban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar’s messages have been read out.

The school’s support for the Taleban has been no secret.

The principal previously sent a batch of 2,000 Afghan students back to their homeland to aid the then ruling Taleban in its fight against the warlords of the Northern Alliance.

TALEBAN ALUMNI
Amir Khan Muttaqi - information and culture minister
Abdul Latif Mansoor - agriculture minister
Maulvi Ahmad Jan - minister of mines and industries
Mullah Jalaludin Haqani - minister of frontier affairs
Maulvi Qalamudin - head of the religious police
Arifullah Arif - deputy foreign minister
Mullah Khairullah Khairkhwa - interior ministry

His words of advice for the Pakistani and Afghan students are now to wage holy war until the “evil force” is defeated.

“In the past, only conspiracies were hatched to end Islam, but now the enemy is in the battlefield challenging us,” said Mr Sami.

“Islam, Muslim scholars and religious students were never under such a threat as today.”

Such messages emanating from seminaries ring alarm bells in Western countries and among moderates in Pakistan.

hey
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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

^ shows the sorry state these losers have put Pakistan in.

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

No, I wasn't saying the Taliban redeemed themselves at all, but that this man did nothing wrong. Instead of proving a point, the EU probably alienated the group of people who elected him. If it is a democratic system that elected him and the people want him as their representative, then he is their choice.

Again, we cannot say that we want others to have democratic systems in place to give a voice to people and then summarily reject who the people want because we don't like them. he may not be the choice for us, but he was the elected choice of his people. Diplomatic snubs are usually give to people who deserve them and have a history behind them, this man didn't. He was also not a person who sits insulated in Pakistan refusing to have anything to do with the EU, he made the trip to attend. Now, let's see how long it takes to have anyone do the same from the areas he represents.

The only reason (at least according to this article) was his religious affiliation and views. And that was wrong.

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Then again

Since when, EU is in war with Taliban? That’s news to me. Can you give me any update on this ongoing war?

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

“Diplomatic snubs are usually give to people who deserve them and have a history behind them, this man didn’t.”

Not true, the following editorial delineates his past as a spokesperson for the Taleban in Pakistan.

A very good editorial:

EDITORIAL: L’affaire Sami ul Haq

Senator Maulana Sami ul Haq, who heads a faction of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI-S) — one of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal components — was detained on Wednesday by the Belgian police after he arrived in Brussels as part of a parliamentary delegation from Pakistan that was scheduled to meet members of the European Parliament. The Belgian authorities wanted to deport him but intervention from the Pakistani government at the level of Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz saved the delegation from further immediate embarrassment. However, the European Parliament refused to meet the delegation even though the leader of the delegation, Senator Mushahid Hussain, indicated that the delegation would be happy to meet with members of the EU Parliament without Mr Haq. Apparently, objections were also raised about Senator Khurshid Ahmed of the Jamaat-e-Islami.

Mr Haq is incensed. The National Assembly has passed a resolution condemning the incident. We also learn that the Foreign Office has formally protested the treatment meted out to a member of Pakistan’s Senate who was given a visit visa by an EU member state. However, what happened in Brussels has a background and before anyone in Pakistan jumps up in self-righteous indignation, it is important to look at the incidents that led to this unfortunate happening.

Mr Haq is a religious firebrand. For years he has been fulminating against the West and Western values. During the Taliban government, a regime loathed by the entire world, Mr Haq acted as its spokesperson in Pakistan. Since the US attack on Afghanistan, he has not only been attacking the United States but also lambasting the Musharraf government for its change of policy in Afghanistan, viz its decision to drop the Taliban and ally itself with the US effort against Al Qaeda and other Qaeda-affiliated groups in that country. Mr Haq is also rabidly sectarian and his party has traditionally been sympathetic to sectarian terrorist groups. In today’s world of instant information, Mr Haq’s ideology and his activities are not hidden from anyone. It was for this reason that he was earlier denied a visa by France. However, he managed to get one from Germany and proceeded first to that country and then to Belgium.

In Germany, reports suggest that he did his usual number, attacking and lambasting the West and calling upon Muslims to defy the West. The news of his exploits also reached Belgium. By the time Mr Haq landed in that country, newspapers had already published his personality sketch. Brussels then decided that it did not want to put up with Mr Haq’s shenanigans. The best way to prevent him from rabble-rousing, it reasoned, would be to nip him in the bud. Thus, even though Mr Haq had a Schengen visa, which allows a traveller to visit the 11 Schengen countries, Belgium being one, Brussels decided not to put up with the likes of him, a right it legally retains at all times despite the visa.

Indeed, the British Labour member Neena Gill, who heads the European Union assembly’s South Asia inter-parliamentary committee, said the EU parliament had called off the talks with the Pakistani delegation because of Mr Haq. Ms Gill said the “European Parliament espouses the ideals of democracy, equality and human rights… We can’t condone individuals who place themselves outside these parameters, for they represent everything we stand against”.

This explains why Mr Haq was treated like persona non grata. However, since Mr Haq is quite satisfied with his own ideology and practice, we see no reason why he shouldn’t calmly accept the decision by a country that abhors his ideology and doesn’t want him to litter its streets with it. But that has not happened. While opposing Western values, Mr Haq wants to use the concept of legalities and democratic values to decry Brussels’ decision not to allow him in to castigate precisely such values. In this he is acting like a shyster lawyer.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_22-4-2005_pg3_1

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

guys they had reasons to not meet with the guy based on his political leanings, US did the same when it diallowed Modi. whats the issue. countries eject diplomats that they dont like as well because they may not be comfortable with the diplomats activities.

the argument of he is democratically elected and thus should be entertained is absurd. Because by that token would you have accpeted an idiot like Modi to come to Pakistan?

The issue here is that EU should have communicated its views to the govt before hand.

Surely this adds fuel to the fiery speeches of sami's sort as they would twist it to make it an anti religion thing rather than se that EU is distancing itself from the views this guy has supported.

Mini shock at beauty salon ( as told by Alia who went home 'Pakistan' to get married)
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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Fraudz, you need to read the remainder of the editorial I posted. The EUs objections were well known. Here is the balance of the editorial from above:

On our side, the question is simpler. Why did Mushahid Hussain include Mr Haq in the delegation after France had denied him a visa? Surely, he knew very well why Paris had taken that decision. Even so, he did not rethink his position. The embarrassment Pakistan has had to face raises some questions. Mr Haq is part of our parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee headed by Mushahid Hussain. This is because he continues to threaten to break away from the MMA, and the government thinks that by rewarding him it can induce him to remain a thorn in the MMA’s side on its behalf. But while this may be expedient in the peculiar domestic circumstances of Pakistan, it doesn’t wash with the Europeans. Incidentally, Europe is far more militant on issues of human rights, democracy and religious tolerance than the United States — a fact that Mushahid Hussain should know well. It was therefore imprudent to have included Mr Haq in the delegation, especially after France had signalled that he was not welcome. Last year, Mushahid Hussain should have recalled, Belgium had also requested Holland not to issue a visa to Qazi Hussain Ahmed, amir of Jamaat-e-Islami, another MMA component, because Mr Ahmed’s ideology was considered bigoted and intolerant.

It should be clear to our government that some of the political elements in Pakistan with whom it still wants to play ball are unacceptable to the world at large. This is a serious matter and the situation cannot be improved by faulting those states that exercise their sovereign right to deny entry to elements that are deemed harmful or disruptive. The only way to improve Pakistan’s image abroad and avoid this kind of incident is to get rid of such elements instead of molly-coddling them

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_22-4-2005_pg3_1

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Is this the same Mushahid Hussain that was under Nawaz?

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

OG I read that, but his visa should have been refused from the get go. The guy's approach ideology and views did not change when he landed in one EU member nation.

Apparentlygovt of Pak did not do its homework when they sent this clown, and EU did not do its homework when they gave the visa.

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Thank you OG, that’s the crux of the argument. So next time if an Israeli civilian is killed in a pizzeria please don’t tell us that he was an innocent civilian rather he was just held accountable by Hamas.

This is one plain stupid argument used by AlKayda as well. The point is that he represented Pakistan and just because of his political/religious views he was sidelined by EU, and the EU didnt do it because if its love of democracy or principle but because it can.

Good News...:-)
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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Comparing a diplomatic snub to blowing up pizzerias is ridiculous. There are civilized ways to deal with situations. Fraudz is right, they should have refused up front, but we are still talking about a snub, not murder. Refusing to talk to someone who's views you abhor is not the same thing as killing someone who may or may not have nothing to do with your cause.

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

I think Germany granted the visa, but forgot about the "Union" part. Certainly the guys behavior IN Germany may have helped solidify a decision.

Anyway, screw him. If that is the representative Pakistan chooses to put forward, then don't be suprised at the consequences. Sort of like putting Cuba on the UN human rights commission. People think all kinds of crap should be tollerated in the name of diplomacy. Frankly after reading the article about the "University of Holy War", the NorthWest Frontier seems more and more like Laos and Cambodia, political refuges.

"Thank you OG, that’s the crux of the argument. So next time if an Israeli civilian is killed in a pizzeria please don’t tell us that he was an innocent civilian rather he was just held accountable by Hamas."

Are you a complete idiot? To take that a little further, the Palestinian people should not be suprised when they are held accountable for harboring Hamas, and they are completely driven from their lands and every one of them is slaughtered by the superior force of Israel. Violent punishment should stop somewhere, and the concept of "innocent" generally means that those who do not carry arms should not be intentionally attacked by arms. If you wish to regress, and declare everybody fair game, that suits me fine, let the carpet bombing begin.

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

If this is okay then no us official should be granted permission to land in any country

we can have idiotic texans and the murderers of over a million people traveling the world but not a pakistani diplomat... how interesting

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

these white european idiots are good for nothing other than spreading disease

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

^ ahhh... so you do know what racism is

AQ
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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Quick to jump on the idiocy again OG, as I said earlier you are no different than Alkayda, enjoy the accountability.

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

I've taken the test buddy.. and the results have proven that I'm not racist

and that wasn't racism anyways... it's called a fact something the europeans and even americans don't usually have to back their bs

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

Frankly, justifying the intentional killing of innocents is where YOU started my friend...... I am merely pointing out that IF those are the new rules for the world to play by, Muslims would not fare well.....

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

taken a test? LOL :slight_smile:

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Re: Pakistan Protests EU Treatment of Pro-Taleban Legislator

OG, that mentality is nothing new. Another extension of blame displacement.