Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
after controling afghanistan they could have reached pakistan easily......
if they had occupied pakistan i dont think usa had guts to go for an all out war......
why will ussr fight a war for afghanistan?ussr was not iraq.....
As occupation of pakistan was no immediate threat to us..
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
this is interesting, gives some insight as to what was happening during that time. The role of Afghanistan, India and Russia and Pakistan’s fears:
US-Pakistan Relationship: Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan - A. Z. Hilali - Google Books warm waters pakistan&f=false
There were leftist parties in KP and Balochistan, and Afghanistan trying to push for Pashtunistan and wanting access to Gwadar. With Russia invading Afghanistan maybe the military elite got scared and jumped into the battle. Whatever was the motive for the war, right or wrong the impact of all that is still haunting us.
As far a threat to US is concerned, they had no threat due to USSR’s invasion of Vietnam as well. The cold war was on and the venues of faceoff were changing.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
in my view dis-integration of USSR due to afghan war resulted in religious freedom of uzbek,tajik.turkmen muslim brothers...
afghan war was need of hour...the victory boosted moral of muslims all over the world even those who were against afghan war...
though afghans paid with their lives for that victory but we failed to secure that victory by building a good society...
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
The thing is that no doubt Russians and afghans both wanted access to the warm waters of Pakistan. It's also a historical fact that afghans were supporting pashtun and baloch nationalists even before the russia invasion. There were left wingers in kp and balochistan, and with Russia sitting in Afghanistan it was bound to create suspicions in the military.
Keeping all this in mind I still believe that one should keep his relationship better in the neighborhood, Pakistan should have had better relationship with Russia (instead of america) as we have to live with them.
The decision to side with the Americans was a complete risk, agreed Russians might have had motives for wresting gwadar (but we are not really sure about that) but what would have happened had Russians and afghans actually won that war?
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
in my view dis-integration of USSR due to afghan war resulted in religious freedom of uzbek,tajik.turkmen muslim brothers...
afghan war was need of hour...the victory boosted moral of muslims all over the world even those who were against afghan war...
though afghans paid with their lives for that victory but we failed to secure that victory by building a good society...
Pakistan and Afghanistan both have paid for this war.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
a long time ago, i read in indian news paper that one of afghan ruler just after formation of pakistan asked india to attack pakistan and
divide its territory with afghanistan....
i dont know weather it is true or not....
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
ofcourse Pakistan knew about obl living in it. Pakistan has used terrorism as its main weapon in its attempt to control Afghanistan, in causing attacks such as Mumbai attack as well as sowing discord in Kashmir. The only difference is now they stand exposed. So what do they do next? you see more and more using Islam as the next weapon - it is not just the terrorists who kill in the name of Islam but you find more and Pak officials also start using Islam in their explanations and defences!
Now who all in Pakistan did these things and who all knew about it? Obviously your military, ISI are the primary culprits.
Anyone who says these things are immediately branded Pakistan hater, Islam hater. Terrorists scum such as hafeez saeed are released but people like this doctor who helped catch obl has been jailed.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
Look who showed up with his chakkar..
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
Sometimes I think about a statement by Ahmed shah masood, the leader of northern alliance who had said the war going on in Afghanistan will end in Pakistan, that's exactly what we are seeing now.
The obsession of our army with Afghanistan has not only cost us Afghanistan but Pakistan as well. I have never seen an army which is hell bent on destroying its own country, America and other countries go fight wars in far flung areas not in their own countries. Eg they allowed the Yemeni alqaeda leader to go to Yemen where they killed him in a drone attack.
This is the scary thing. Our army believes on top of it that they have nuclear they can do what they want. When the show is run by crore commanders, expect principles to be low.
Pakistan will suffer very badly thanks to the army leadership. They are running out of lives. It is a much easier country to tackle than Afghanistan. Afghanistan and the Pashtuns of Pakistan have always fought against invaders. Most of Pakistan has never done that. Afghanistan needed to be invaded to be controlled but Pakistan does not need that.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
Leon Panetta has no proof that Pakistani govt knew where OBL was, BUTTTT Mr Bindazz knows for sure that Pakistani govt knew where OBL was… whose words to believe, difficult dilemma… I think I should believe Bindazz because he is an anonymous Indian poster 
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
I once asked a senior retired military person in Pakistan if it was possible that our intelligence agencies did not know about OBL located in a compound hardly 500 meters from Kakul.. his reply was that in that location the army intelligence would know the pedigree of your dog even.
It's an eye opener for people who still defend the ex illegal President/army chief General Musharraf. I had been writing about the kind of double games this opportunist was playing to ensure the longevity of his illegal tenure for a long time.
These kind of dangerous games have become a serious security threat to Pakistan. Imagine a scenario where God forbid a major terrorist attack happens in US or some country where a few thousand people die and the leads come to Pakistan. What will be the outcome for Pakistan after that. We will probably face carpet bombing on our cities instead of drone attacks. I can assure you that our army leadership will be the first people to abandon the GHQ and army installations and hide somewhere deep under ground in some safe bunkers. Poor people of Pakistan will face the wrath of such public/international media/foreign army aggressions which will follow such incident.
**Whenever such questions arise in our country where army leadership have to answer these valid concerns.. they try to avoid these discussion on the pretext that it will harm the national security. In fact these covert jihadi agendas are the biggest security risk for the people of Pakistan who are sitting on a time bomb. It's a question of "when".. **not "if"... this major terrorist attack will happen. As a nation we are justified to ask the wisdom of supporting these covert terrorist outfits by our army intelligence/leadership which are a big/genuine risk for the people of our country.
**It's high time our military leadership answers these questions instead diverting attention to the non-issues like memogate.. **It's a dangerous game they are playing which can result in economic/physical hardship for the poor people of this unfortunate country.
We need a strong Civilian government in Pakistan who is not compromised and does not face embarrassing financial scandals on daily basis to control the army from making a state within our state. We need a civilian government who is genuinely liked by the masses and has the courage to ask all these questions from our army leadership.
I have raised these questions in the past in this forum also. If you see recent Imran Khan interviews he is also talking about this possible major terrorist attack somewhere and consequences for Pakistan after such incident. This concern was raised by me in this forum about 2/3 years ago. It's very important that Imran Khan is able to form at least a strong opposition with good numbers in the parliament to give a voice to these genuine concerns. I would be really delighted to to see some miracle happening and he could actually form the next government in Pakistan..
One of the best posts about I have read on this forum for a long time. It is sad that so very few people have liked it. People spend hours criticising Zardari and the PPP here yet do not even spend a second giving even constructive criticism of the army. I feel like writign all the names of those who are out there blaming Zardari for everything yet they dont realise for many things the civilian government has no blame because they have no control.
In reality our army and intelligence services are a blunder for Pakistan. They will take us into a war which we cannot win and they will flee. On top of that they are a financial burden for Pakistan. They rob loot it for their own needs. Our army leadership is somewhat like a parasite. It will eventually kill the host.
The army is not a closet Jihadi in fact they are closet Westerners. The upper ranks drink alcohol, try to ape the British in every step and have no interest in Pakistani customs.
Whatever their personal habits are they always use the term national security, national interest but thankfully over the last year they have lost that and many people are challenging them. As much as I hate the fact Pakistan is governed by losers suchas Zardari and Gilani I wish they would sack the ISI chief and COAS and take them on. Sadly they are not sincere too.
You will only have to watch who posts here and who does not. Look at a thread critical of the PPP/Zardari and you will see the non-posters on this thread spending a lot of time criticising our civilian government.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
The government almost certainly did not know where OBL was. It would have been a huge boost ofr the PPP and its supporters if they had known as they would have almost certainly handed OBL over to the USA.
People talk of the government of Pakistan as if it has any control over so-called issues of national interest. The ISI most likely knew about the presence of OBL and I doubt they would have shared that with the government, which is considered a traitor and pro-american, even though the army and ISI loves taking orders from the Yanks.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
But the situation is far from peachy either. Or perhaps, you want Pakistan to become some somalia before you say that we have a problem. No wonder the UN is considered a worthless pos and america wants to cut its funding.
Now, i am no way in favor of how we conducted the whole "afghan bhai" refugees, but fighting the war was a necessity in the sense that we would be in a strategic nightmare if there ever was a war with india with Soviets sitting in afghanistan. I believe the soviets had asked permission in 1965 to fly over afghanistan, but zahir shah had refused it. Ultimately, Pakistan should not want any superpower in afghanistan, but instead get its act together so afghanistan can't resist the economic might of Pakistan like how iran, syria and iraq can't resist Turkey's economic clout.
Yeah you aren't very current on anything are ya. Far from Peachy? Quick question have you lived anywhere other than the West? No regular summer vacations in Pakistan do not count.
I do have a question for you all who think the military is god when it comes to Pakistan. Why do you believe all this nonsense that our military is infallible? From what I have gathered our military officers couldn't conduct a simple strategy on economic policy for 1 year let alone 10. The first thing to realize is that our military is far more propaganda than actual ability. FATA is an excellent example. A bunch of tribals are kicking our military's ass. And more importantly the military is not omnipotent. Rather it is very very limited. The notion that the ISI or the Military is the bogeyman behind all the conspiracies in Pakistan is frankly retarded and has no merit.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
“not even the pedigree of a dog in that area will go unknown by the military”
and some of you pose as if you need video of musharraf kiyani or pasha hugging osama in his Abbottabad study to believe.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
Still they have no proofs of that whatsoever!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/world/asia/panetta-credits-pakistani-doctor-in-bin-laden-raid.html?_r=2&hp
Mr. Panetta said that his beliefs were based on a hunch rather than any hard evidence, and American officials have said privately that the cache of electronic files seized at Bin Laden’s compound contain no proof that Pakistani authorities were protecting Bin Laden.Still, Mr. Panetta, who was the director of the C.I.A. when the raid occurred, said that one of the reasons the Obama administration did not notify Pakistan’s government before the Navy Seal raid last May was that American spy agencies had previously spotted Pakistani military helicopters flying over the compound and were concerned that Pakistani authorities might tip off Bin Laden.%between%
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
Like I said. The military had no idea. They are a bunch of egotistical idiots who didn't know what was happening in their backyard. They could do with some ego deflating.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
It was sure out of knowledge of most of military command on never ask never know bases but it may be in knowledge of two or three persons .
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
This is utter nonsense.
Given all all in Abbottabad is military, there is zero chance that Pak officials did not kntow of OBL living there. Forget knowledge, they protected him there.
If anyone claims such incompetence that they did not know of OBL then all the charges Pak military is incapable of protecting nuclear material is more than credible.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
Look go back to India. Someone gave Sunny Leone a Bollywood movie contract. That should keep you busy for a few years.
Re: Pakistan knew about Bin Laden hideout: Panetta
a hand full of higher ranking officers along with raymond and shakeel afridi and likes, knowing where OBL was does not imply pakistan as a state knowing where he was. but some of our gullible brothers love to believe every single word that comes out of gora sahab and their servants' mouth.
doesn't mean that i believe he was here (not yet at least) i will believe what OBL commission has to say about it any day over what panetta and clinton and any one else.