Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
US resident. Pakistanis of FATA are recruited in high numbers into the Pakistan Army still.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
^ this time you have very solid comments just to add:
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I believe, Musharaf is trying to make FATA as part of NWFP, with all Pakistan laws enforced there too]
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A very positive step but has to be taken very cautiously, most of the tribal leaders must be taken into confidence particularly the key figure like Latif Afridi etc
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If those idiots in Tribal areas would start pinching USA and NATO forces in Afghanistan, they would come after them and it would be foolish for Pakistan to gamble Pakistan independence for these idiots.
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Again some missing link,
Though it seems off topic but we must know the background. Most of our members link the activities with Islam, I think that is not the sole reason. Pukhtuns on both sides of Durandline have strong link and affinities. There are relatives on both sides, they were from the same country i.e. Afghanistan before 1848, even at the time of British, there was no such boundary, the Mashuds and Wazirs from Waziristan had gone into Kabul and by force replaced the sitting king with Ghazi Amanullah. Before 1976, during Grand Afghan Jirga, all the tribal leaders used to attend that Jirga on the request of the king.
Talibans govt was not only Islamic regime for them but a Pukhtun regime as well and that was the reason that Pakistan wanted to support them. Ousting of Taliban and their replacement by their enemies Northern Alliance with the help of America couldnt be taken unregistered in Tribal belt.
So if the tribals are supporting Taliban, the reason is not only Islam rather to support their Pukhtun brethern.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
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The last time I was in Mangora (about 8 years ago) with some relatives (mixed, ladies observing hijaab) they started throwing stones at us because we had women with us. These are the kind of people you are talking about. And this is in the mansehra district, which supposedly had the mulla form of Shariah enforced. Perhaps if you had left your Defence Phase III bunglow you would know life better in Pakistan.
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Thanks for positive response,
About Pukhtun, they have their undiluted Pukhtunwali, far dearer to them than even their religion. About the women in Mengora, I am also astonished, I have been to the most parts of Frontier and I never heard any such incident, but the reason of stoning may be because they thought your are probably from some NGO. Anyway I dont deny it, these things may happen but mainly in tribla areas.
About the Defense Phase III, how do you know that?
I wish if I had one.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
^^^
Well, I know the history and I never said why they are doing what they are doing. The thing is that, if they want to go to Afghanistan and fight there, why they want to become security risk to Pakistan. They should move to Afghanistan, stay in Afghanistan and fight there for whatever length of time they want. No one would bother. To go there, do attacks on American, NATO or Afghan government forces and come back to Pakistan is what is wrong.
If they would do such, USA and NATO has all the right to ask Pakistan to punish them, as according to international law, Pakistan is responsible for all actions initiated from Pakistan and all insurgents taking refuge in Pakistan or using Pakistan as platform to attack in Afghanistan.
In such situation, Pakistan has to bomb them or use Pakistan army to control them, as these insurgent miscreants are armed, and consider themselves above Pakistani laws. They do not hesitate to attack Pakistani army and thus Pakistani army has to shoot them on sight. Well, if Pakistan is having difficulty in controlling them (as Pakistan is having), USA and NATO would also act on them in Pakistani territory (with or without the consent of Pakistan).
Even though Pakistan would like all actions by Pakistani force in FATA or if by USA and NATO, then with Pakistan consent. Though it is not always possible as fault lies with Pakistan, that Pakistan is not controlling their citizen and land. If USA and NATO wants, they can even take that excuse to launch an attack on Pakistan tribal lands with heavy aerial bombing, but it seems that Pakistan is managing to convince them (American and NATO) that the situation is such that Pakistan is doing as much as they can and they are doing for the best of both side.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
Granted but FATA is not yet controlled by the Pakistan government. Have you ever been to FATA. Its a completely different country in there.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
You are welcome.
Sir, I have lived among Afghanis and Pathans. Its sad but true that they may be the most warm hearted people when it comes to hospitality however not the most sensible people and they have issues of loyalty. Your own sentence speaks of where their allegience lies. Even from an Islamic perspective they are rebelling against the government, issuing edicts without any authority which undermines the state authority. Even in the Islamic period such people were callled hypocrites and traitors. You cannot have your own state within a state. They are not in a UN or Foreign country embassy where at least in todays politics you can diplomatically claim to be on foreign soil and not Pakistani soil.
In fact, in Naraan I have had a face to face encounter with Maulana Fazlur Rehman (believe me he is a cow, probably never read the hadith about dietary recommendatrions i.e. 1/3 food, 1/3 liquid and 1/3 empty stomach). He came to have lunch in the resort we were staying in, as far as I recall its at the end of it the Naraan township, where it starts going uphill after the bridge. It was next to the Pine resort. He had all of us kicked out of resort so he could. We had some small children with us as well who were hungry and started getting sick. Eventually we called out the Manager of the hotel and threatened to beat him up and some other people of the resort unless we are allowed back in to eat. After some negotiation with him we got back in, the managers exact words were "Bhai humara khiyal karo, aap log to chalay jao ge per baad mein ye log hum ko chittar lagwain ge chorahay per kharay ho kar". Now this is the state of mind of the people who control these areas. Imagine what they preach and how people over there are who follow them. God fearing Maulanas.
Sir, I know Pakistan very well and I don't live in newspapers. I know what the ground realities are over there. Its easy to talk principles but for those who recognize them.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
The basic problem is education/awareness and poverty. Infact even the present govt is not sincere to impart the education to them or take any concrete measures to alleviate the poverty. Understandably, if that is done, then they wont be able to use them in future for their nefarious objectives.The problem is when we are using them because of the same aspect (lack of education) we applaud them and term them as heroes but when the same thing turn against us, we dubbed them as traitors, that is so pinching and really hurt me.We motivated them to fight for a sacred cause and now the same cause has turned into terrorism and those poor and uneducated people cant understand that. We have to blame ourselves and our policy, instead of those poor people.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
Sir, I can see your point however when loyalty can be bought at a price then those being bought should realize they can be sold at a cheaper price as well. Peoples actions allow them to be judged. If once they fought by our side it does not grant them immunity from future ill conduct.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
The buying business is restricted to the Malaks only, and those who fight and going for war to Afghanistan have to do nothing with the Malaks, Malaks have some political influence but they cant control over all the masses.Moreover, please dont use Sir, I am a poor man and feel uncomfortable with this title.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
**Bajaur MP challenges government’s claims
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, Nov 2: Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal’s MNA from Bajaur Sahibzada Haroonur Rashid on Thursday challenged President Pervez Musharraf’s claims that all or many of those killed in Monday’s bombing of a seminary were militants and said the truth would come out if media personnel and an investigation team were allowed to go to the tribal agency.
Addressing a news conference here, Mr Rashid who announced his resignation from the National Assembly after the incident, said the Bajaur political agent had told him that an accord with the tribal leadership had been finalised and it was about to be signed, about five hours after the attack.
He said he had made arrangements to host a lunch for 400 people, but the attack subverted any chance of peace at least for the time being.
The MMA leader said the tribesmen were extremely angry with the government which instead of providing protection to them was defending the operation conducted by the United States.
He said the tribesmen were continuing their protests and they were preparing to stage demonstrations in Islamabad. He asked the Supreme Court to take suo motu notice of the attack. He said consultations were under way to move the apex court against the act.
He denied reports about presence in the area of any of the nine tribesmen recently released in Waziristan.
He said thousands of Bajaur tribesmen would testify to prove that the seminary had been attacked by a US drone and the Pakistan army’s helicopters arrived at the scene 20 minutes later.
In reply to a question, he said his resignation was final and he would not attend the next National Assembly session.
He said two other parliamentarians from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas had resigned, while efforts were under way to persuade others to follow suit.
He said the religious school, Ziaul Quran, was located at a place only 1km from his home and he had heard sounds of missiles which shook the windows and doors of his house. The impact was different from that of the rocket fired by Pakistani helicopters later, he said.
He recalled that the military spokesman had expressed his inability to put blame on the United States when Damadola was attacked by US planes on Jan 13, killing 13 innocent women and children, but Washington owned up to the attack.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
These people r living in their own fantasy world and its about time that Pakistani Army bursts that bubble
why don't they burst the bubble in kashmir ...siyachin ... n other disputed territories .... will u answer this ???
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
well thats because in order to get those territories back we will have to confront the indian army which is much stronger and larger than the pakistani army...
Pakistan needs to fix its internal problems before it embarks upon territorial conquests from India...
FATA and NWFP province needs to be brought under Pakistani Control.
Balochistan needs to be fully secured so that development and economic progress can continue.
Criminal activity and Serfdom needs to be actively combatted in Sindh.
Once these problems are fixed we can finally embark upon Saichin Glacier and Kashmir from India.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
^ So basically you advocate the conquest of regions of Pakistan? You obviously no very little of FATA or NWFP..and if you do then you are someone who is quite cruel.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
^ While having the license of only patriotic Pakistanis and keeping the stamp of 'Ghaddar' in their pocket, they have all the rights to kill anyone beyond their provincial boundary.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
Br. This is not about Malaks. I'm sure you have heard "Pathan paisa khata hai". This was coined for a reason. Yes, its not good to stereotype but for the kind of people we are discussing here, its written on the wall.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
FATA has never been controlled by any government..not even the British when they were there.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
Everyone like money. There were many other things coined as well, like never try to rein in Tribal area, never try to play with the Pukhtunwali of Pukhtuns.
Asking for reward is nothing new. When Mashuds and Wazirs ousted the king of Afghanistan and placed Amanullah on the throne, they asked for the reward. We have about 500 thousand army tropps and they are doing a wonderful job on the borders but they get the pay. Even during the Prophet (AS)/caliphates, there was reward in the shape of Mali Ghanimat. So Pathans are not exceptional.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
Pakistan needs to fix its internal problems before it embarks upon territorial conquests from India...
FATA and NWFP province needs to be brought under Pakistani Control.
Balochistan needs to be fully secured so that development and economic progress can continue.
Criminal activity and Serfdom needs to be actively combatted in Sindh.
Once these problems are fixed we can finally embark upon Saichin Glacier and Kashmir from India.
I think u beleive on power plz*read details abt ghazva e badar*....if u beleive on ALLAH Pak
Well Pakistan army is ruling this country since 1947... when they need tribals for afghan Jihad then they allow them for any activity and when they need to show their progress in war against terror then they kill these tribals for the sake of America ....
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
These are the consequences when you train a militant, he is good until you keep him in some job once he is finished he will turn on you.
Re: Pakistan kills 80 Islamic Madrassa Students
the counterterrorism blog has this to say:
Source: Zawahiri Likely Alive, Bajur Accords on Hold
By Daveed Gartenstein-Ross
I just spoke with a military intelligence source who confirmed that the Bajur airstrike (see Andy Cochran's post on it) was conducted by a U.S. Predator, adding that helicopters were also involved. The strike occurred around dawn, as people in the camp were preparing for their morning prayers. My source is skeptical of speculation that Zawahiri may have been killed in the strike, saying that Zawahiri sightings are a dime a dozen. He says it's possible that Matiur Rehman was killed, but is also skeptical of that.
The strike came just as the Bajur accords were supposed to take place (similar to the Waziristan accords that now prevent Pakistan's military from operating in that region). Officials within the Pakistani government were supposedly worried when early reports surfaced that Faqir Mohammed may have been killed. Faqir Mohammed is a Taliban leader in the region who would have been a major signatory to the accords: if he were killed, the Pakistanis wouldn't know who could enter into the accords with them (or, to put it cynically, with Faqir Mohammed dead they wouldn't know who they were supposed to surrender to). However, Mohammed survived. He apparently felt so confident in his safety that he gave an interview to NBC News at the scene near the blasted school, and also attended -- and spoke at -- the funeral for the 80 who died in the strike.