Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Certain type of Islam is a hindrance. now see, there is no one Islam, is there? lets say pakistan becomes a truly islamic republic. what islam are we going to follow? sunni or shia or ahmadi? wahabi, deobandi, or hanafi? are we going for a Saudi arabia like shariah or Iran like shariah or Taliban like sharia? All these 3 groups seem to think they have the right kind of islamic govt. so tell me, what islam are u proposing?
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Do describe the different types of Islam. I would love to hear the different categories.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Taliban claim to follow the true Islam, and so does Iran and Saudi. Which one should pakistan follow?
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
lets not forget the popular “enlightened moderation” islam. Should Pakistan adopt that?
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
You said different types of Islam. Not different types of government structures. Show me the different forms of Islam you speak off.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
What Quaid-e-Azam wanted was to establish a state based on true Islamic principles but not a theocratic state run and dictated by a particular group of mullahs. Pakistan should have been free for all i.e., all groups religious or secular should be equal before the law. All should have equal opportunities to excel. Life, property and prestige of everyone should be equally protected by the state. If by Islamic state, you mean that some groups or a particular groups are given a edge over others and some groups live like third rated citizens because they don’t fit in with the favored groups then I am opposed to it. It is not Islamic.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Ok so lets go back to the basics. there is differences on opinion on many aspects of Islam. Islam is not just a simple belief but a complete way of life. the shahada maybe the same however, islam is a way of life.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
True it is called LA-DEEN (not to be confused with Laden LOL)
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
as it is… somewhere in between.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
A ridiculous red herring. There are many forms of secularism too…which one? The real question is, can all ideologies negotiate space so that Pakistan doesn’t go down in a blaze of sectarian violence. And yes, as it stands secularism would simply add another faction, rather than eliminate all existing ones.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
No. Your very foundation of your argument is wrong. Muslims do not argue over the 5 principles of Islam do they? They don’t argue that we need to pray to Mecca right? You said Islam. So please show me the distinct different types of Islam. Not government structures. Not political entities. The different types of Islam. Do name those different types. Just name them.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Not sure what the point of Pakistan being, without its being Islamic would be?
But whether secular or Islamic, it is one debate I, as an outsider, feel Pakistan should resolve.
These are first-order issues of state.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Ruzaan, you are talking to a bunch of ABCDs. Most Pakistanis are extremely happy to define Pakistan as an Islamic state. These guys living abroad just don’t get that.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
we dont have any decision to make in this regard, decision was made more than 60 years ago. we only need to implement it, actually increase the pace of implementation of this decision.
of course it should be gradual, well calculated, looking at all aspects of stability of the state itself and betterment and welfare of the people.
and let me tell you, more than 80% of Pakistani population does not even know the meaning of what “secular” is, this latest rant of secularism is only fueled by elite class living in few cities, some writers most of whom are on foreign payroll, and ethnic parties (mostly leaders only), and of course as CM said, a bunch of ABCDs who have never lived in Pakistan or hardly ever visit the country.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
There is a group of people that follow a very moderate version of Islam that doesn’t involve intolerance or violence and there is another group of jihadi extremist islam. You can say there is only one islam but that is NOT how it’s practiced. All these people claim to be following the same Quran but they seem to take its meaning in different ways. If Islam is imposed on pakistan, it will be the biggest disaster ever.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Praying is not the only issue here. And even that some people follow, some don’t. Some think its mandatory for women to cover up, while others don’t. some think its not good to trust christians and jews while others don’t care. some folow quran plus sunnah, while some don’t follow sunnah because it was compiled much later on. you see all these differences? Do people realy follow ONE Islam? you cannot simply consider only shahada as Islam. islam is a complete way of life dictating every aspect of daily life.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
those who you are claiming that follow a very moderate version of Islam, may be you are pointing to so called “Enlightened Moderation” followers, a term coined during Mush era, if thats the case, than sorry, but they are not really following Islam. also the ones you are claiming are Extremists, if you are pointing to TTP, SSP, LJ etc, then sorry again, neither they are following true Islam. both are victim of a disease called “Ifraat-o-tafreet”
When we say a Islamic State, it means neither of them, nor a Kingdom like KSA, we mean a true Islamic State which tends to follow the very basics of Sharia and performs its daily business internal or external on the footsteps of Muhammad Sallaho alaehe wassalam, and his companions. Keep that in mind, and all these “different types of Islam” as you put it, will fade away. But this is only possible if we let go our luxurious and malicious life style which totally contradicts that of a true Muslim.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
I agree with that. That seems logical.
But my contention is this: If the middle class ‘elite’, or a fraction thereof, living in your cities is espousing “secularism”, then it is your political class that is espousing secularism.
That is important, because no matter what your electorate says, your ideals, values and goals will be informed by what your political-class does. Because, Pakistan is an imperfect democracy, and I would argue, to a greater degree than India.
To me, the debate is no debate at all: because the issue ought to have been resolved a long time ago. Nevertheless, it still seems to be raging, in part because of what the Taliban have brought upon Pakistan, in part because of how your religious identity has informed foreign politics, and in part because you are ideologically juxtaposed to a nation-state that, while being a Hindu majority, has chosen to be ‘secular’, and from whom the raison d’etre of your separation was a seeming insecurity, or inability to manifest your destiny in a secular state.
To me, Pakistan is an interesting experiment. Because, other countries that have chosen the Islamic path have had either: to relegate their ambition for a good lifestyle; or relegate their character for ambition and a democratic path instead- at least nominally.
Whatever the answer is: it is important for yourselves that it be resolved in a timely fashion. Otherwise, you will see yourselves going in the same loop as you are now.
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
and your XYZs are just like mosts Mullani thinking CM
Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?
Clerics need to stop talk on this topic… nation fully know their parts and acts for building up Pakistan…
Munafiqat ki bhi koi haad hoi hai…