Pakistan Islamic or Secular?

[Dr.LuLworth]

Re: Pakistan Islamic or Secular?

@Tasavur

Once again, your saying something doesn’t make that the case; you are treating Shariah as something that is set in stone, when in fact, it is a fluid and dynamic thing, which can change from generation to generation depending on contemporary realities. The primary aim of Shariah is the practical implementation of Allah’s laws which we find in the Quran and the *Sunnah *of the Prophet (PBUH). It is obligatory on Muslims to rule themselves by Allah’s laws, and the freedoms and restrictions contained therein. It isn’t a question of 'should we implement *Shariah *or not?'because that particular debate isn’t even on the table; Islam is not just a personal faith; it is a social and political order, and requires its believers to implement its principles in government, in economics, in foreign policy, in taxation, in hudood etc.

it is. that’s why we are having this debate, beta. my point is you are talking about implementing a sunni shariat on everyone, in the guise of “real islamic” government. that’s laughable. and that’s the problem with your theory. Your religious view point will NOT be forced upon everyone else.

[quote=“Tasavur, post:53, topic:229268”]

Secondly, there is no such thing as ‘Sunni Shariat’ - you speak from ignorance if you think that’s the case.\quote]
there is. it is what you are proposing.

@Tasavur

Actually, prior to 1973, Pakistan ***was ***a secular state; it did not have a State religion. Alchohol was sold freely and publicly; no one had to sign a declaration on a passport application against Mirza Ghulam Ahmed being an imposter (which he was, but that’s a debate for another time). The laws of the State were not required to be in conjunction with the values of any particular religion. That is the essence of secularity.

no actually, pakistan was NEVER a truly secular country. Its name was stripped from DOMINION of Pakistan to ISLAMI JAMHORIAT PAKISTAN in the early fifties, thereby ridding it of anything secular. and selling alcohol doesn’t make it a secular country. That is a very weak argument.

@Tasavur

Also, what’s with this ‘Sunni Shariat’ business you keep on mentioning?

why, its what you want to impose on everyone on pakistan. but you deny deny deny.

@Tasavur

You seem to be a Shia’ who thinks that Pakistan is anti-Shia’, which it isn’t, or you are an Ahmedi, in which case I agree with you, you have genuine grievances against the State of Pakistan. You could also be an Indian, or a Western-born Pakistani who knows very little about Pakistan, because you have posted some things which show a lack of knowledge about even the very superficial things (i.e. that Pakistan only became non-secular after 1973). You should realise though that a true Islamic System in Pakistan would respect the non-Muslim minorities more than a democratic system (which we have) can ever do.

aaah, the shia/qadiyani card, if i don’t agree with sunni shariat. dude, you are from england. it has a very extremist pakistani population, so I completely understand your extremist views. I don’t respect them, but i understand them. You are raised in a very narrow minded environment, and you are a product of it. It’s ok, I completely understand your argument through and through.

@Tasavur

The reason you feel that Shariah will not ‘let live’ is because you have a lack of knowledge about what exactly Shariah is. I would recommend you to read this article by Professor Sherman Jackson: What Is Shariah and Why Does It Matter

The fact is that Shariah makes it an obligation upon Muslims to protect the rights of the non-Muslims in an Islamic State. Non-Muslims would be equal citizens of the State and protected under the law. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: “Someone who unjustly kills a non-Muslim living in an Islamic State (a dhimmi) cannot get a whiff of Heaven…" He (PBUH) also said: **“Whoever oppresses a dhimmi or burdens a weight over him more than he can carry, I will be his enemy."

As for Islamic Law being 7th century, well Islam, as a codified religion also began in the 7th Century, so are you here to argue against its veracity? Just because something is old, doesn’t make it *untrue. ***Islam protected rights, particularly for women, which only came about in the West in the 20th century. *For example, right to land ownership, right to do business, right to own property, right to marry whosoever she wanted, rights after divorce etc etc so you need to get out of this mentality that Shariah is some pre-dated or anitquated thing. The fact is, it was a lot more forward thinking and progressive in the 7th century than Western law is even today.

a flawed argument. i never said such thing. sunni version of islamic shariat is not needed by any country today. You may live in a perfect world, but you don’t understand that imposing your old sunni shariat laws will cause hatred for your beloved scholars.

@Tasavur

A Muslim believing in secularism as a superior form of governance is basically admitting that human law supercedes God’s Law.

I understand its what have been taught, but I hate to break it to you: It ISNT THE CASE. God isn’t going anywhere. That is a bogus argument. Secularism = respect for everyone and anyone, DESPITE what their faith is. If you practice ahmedism and call it islam, TOO BAD. There is nothing a wahabi can do about it. If a girl wants to go to school. TOO BAD. There isn’t a thing anyone can do about it.

@Tasavur

Secularism restricts Islam to the category of a personal faith

aah, i see. how do you explain islam spreading in the secular west?

lol you have wayyyyyyyy too much time on your hands kid.