how many of you want to see the country follow the path of failed
taliban theology even if they get elected by people?
Democracy.
You wanted it. You got one!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
Democracy.
You wanted it. You got one!
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demagoguery weather in gujarat or nwfp is not good idea.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
demagoguery weather in gujarat or nwfp is not good idea.
[/QUOTE]
You said it Rvikz. No difference b/w Islamic or Hindu Fanatics.
the areas that MMA is flexing it muscles have had all kinds of issues already. most places in NEFP are not the most liberal and cosmopolitan areas anyways. Thier lameness creates a big problem.
But eventually people will realize that these guys won on slogans but cant deliver jack except enforce theri ideas on everyone. Consequently the support for them will die out just like is did for JI rigfht after maududi's time.
Disclaimer: I haven't read the article.
Just to add one small point... each area and populace can has its own unique culture. One-Size-Fits-All is an absurd concept when it comes to law-making and human rights. The main focus should be "For the People, By the People". If the people in NWFP want Talbanization (a curious phrase btw) they have a perfect right to experiment with it. Afterall they elected this government and it is not like Talibaan in Afghanistan who took power by force. Please keep in mind this vital difference.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Disclaimer: I haven't read the article.
Just to add one small point... each area and populace can has its own unique culture. One-Size-Fits-All is an absurd concept when it comes to law-making and human rights. The main focus should be "For the People, By the People". If the people in NWFP want Talbanization (a curious phrase btw) they have a perfect right to experiment with it. Afterall they elected this government and it is not like Talibaan in Afghanistan who took power by force. Please keep in mind this vital difference.
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i agree with you there is a difference between pakistan and afganistan
and pakistani army plays key role in balancing different forces.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
i agree with you there is a difference between pakistan and afganistan
and pakistani army plays key role in balancing different forces.
[/QUOTE]
In this particular case/discussion, what is the relevance of Pakistani Army? Please elaborate.
The way I see it, the people of NWFP in Pakistan elected a majority of religious-oriented people, who have formed the government and will now formulate policies in accordance with their election menifesto. So, all good and dandy. This is democracy.
In Afghanistan, Talibaan came into power after a bitter civil war. There were no elections. We have no idea whether the people of Afghanistan liked or hated Talibaan (in terms of % of total population). And they ruled pretty much by the gun.
Whats the role of Pak Army in all this???
Pakistan is not being Talibanised. That is merely a gimmicky headline. From what I understand and have been told by others, there is little doubt that there is a great deal of support for MMA in NWFP and Balochistan. However, what is not clear is how free and open were the elections and how much rigging was there by the 'establishment' of which the Pak army HQ is a big component. Post elections there seems to be a lot of manipulation by the 'establishment' to acheive a docile government. Of all the statements from political parties appearing in Pakistani Newspapers, statements from MMA regarding amendent 58(2), civilian president, etc seem to be the most genuine and with Pakistan's interest in mind. Regardless of what appears to be socially regressive policies of MMA viewing it from the west, I suspect that at present a lot of Pakistanis are giving it a second look for it seems to be the only party that appears to genuinely have Muslim interest at heart. What is not clear yet is whether the pull towards PanIslamis is at the cost of Pakistan's interest or not? I suspect it is not and once that becomes clearer MMA is likely going to gain a lot more support in Pakistan. I suspect that the pragmatic dealings with the US forces in pakistan will be the means by which MMA will establish itself to be a real political force. PPP's fortune will depend upon how BB fares. She is fast losing her luster even amongst some of her staunch supporters.
Faisal you are wrong. Winning a democratic election means to have the right to run the Government for certain period according to pre-agreed upon constitution. The rights of individuals are pre-agreed upon and guaranteed no matter who wins and runs the government. The winning side can pass regulations or laws with majority(2/3rd or 3/4th) in the new assembly/parliament but can't just throw away the cosntitution and say since we got 51 votes out of 100 polled(out of 250 total) we have license to take away personal rights of every individual under our government. That is not what democracy is about. Desis have wrong idea of democracy that once you have 1 more vote than the other side then you can burn them alive or whatever else you want to do. Our democracy is..hey if our gang is bigger we beat the hell out of the other group.
Channji,
MMA is forming the provincial government in NWFP province. They are not changing the constitution of Pakistan. They are only forming laws within the ambit of constituion (atleast I would think so). If someone feels the provincial govt is going beyond what is permitted by the constitution, they can and should go to the courts. This happens, even in USA, all the time. Its nothing new. MMA does not have 2/3rd majority. If they had, they would have a perfect right to change the constitution based on their election menifesto as well. There is nothing which says a constitution can be amended or changed if enough people are supporting such a change.
OldLahori,
If at all, the vote in NWFP was anti-establishment. I don't think MMA's success can be attributed to Pak Army. On the other hand, it must be a bitter disappointment for folks that despite massive efforts by the establishment to ensure success of PML-Q, MMA still won as many seats as they did. So, in that sense, MMA marginalized the influence of Pak Army. They got the anti-America vote, which runs contrary to what Musharraf stands for.
Faisal, you are right. I suspect that the margin of victory for MMA might have been larger without the interference. MMA would have also done better in Panjab. I also suspect that PPPP would have done a lot better in Panjab and Sindh. MQM might not have done as well as it did.
India is being slowly Advaninized!
all this witty and smart banter aside, is there any truth to this report? I know Musharaf has been weakened by the election of the religious extremist faction but is there any reduction in military support of musharaf? that'd be the point of no return if the military even partially starts taking the other side.
Although I think the MMA is a big joke, I dont think Pakistan is being Talibanized, mainly because (keeping MMA's work aside) - there are other parties in the country that also hold seats. Also, lets face it - Mush has the real power anyway. MMA doesn't have complete control over the country and they never will.
One thing I wonder about sometimes is the effect of afghani refugees in NWFP. 1. Do the majority of NWFP'ers even support the Talibaan or is that just a media hype? 2. Wouldn't the stories the refugees tell creep out the local public and prevent them from supporting a taliban-style government?
I say better be Talibanized than Musharifized.
what do you mean slowly?
btw someone had a witty saying 'India being advaninized'. let's hope for our sake and your sake that doesn't happen. extremism in any form is bad. whether l.k.advani has extreme views or not, I did not appreciate his recent call challenging war - need more maturity than that
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
I say better be Talibanized than Musharifized.
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spock dude start growing a beard, burn your jeans etc. cuz if it gets talibanised, thats just asking for an azz whoopin'
Re: Pakistan is being slowly Talibanised
The policies, and even theology, proposed by the MMA are actually substantially different from that of the Taliban.