Pakistan India --- THE DIFFERENCE

Entertainment Cricket and Other Sports
1

Pakistan has produced world class batsmen over the years. Hanif Mohammed, Majid Khan, Zaheer Abbas, Javed Miandad, Inzimam-ul-Haq to name a few but ever since we have been on a winning track our bowling specially fast bowling has played an important part. Sure we have to thank the likes of Qadir and Saqlain and to some extent Tauseef, Iqbal Qasim and Mushtaq for their contributions over the years but if you compare it to Sarfaraz, Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and now Shoaib Akhtar the spinners contribution looks minimal. Imran started a new era in Pakistan cricket, he put Pakistan on a winning track along with Javed Miandad.

Compare that to India. They have produced world class batsmen over the years much more than Pakistan. Gavaskar, Azhar, Ganguly, Tedulkar to name a few. Now no matter what we all try and believe the simple fact remains we have not produced a batsman as explosive and brilliant as Sachin Tendulkar. On the other hand they have yet to produce a world class fast bowler. Actually they have not produced a whole lot of world class bowlers. Yes they had Kapil Dev, Herwani, Anil Kumble but for the most part Indians have relied on their batsmen to do the job for them. Now an interesting thing in this regard is I was reading ace Indian bowler Srinath’s interview on cricinfo and he blamed the lack of fast bowlers in India on the pitches.
According to him the pitches are so supportive to the batsmen that fast bowlers just loose faith in themselves and the batsmen grow more and more confident. Well we have same pitches in Pakistan but for some reason we produce great fast bowlers but our batsmen don’t get any boost in confidence at least nothing that sets them apart from everyone else. Now why is it that playing on identical conditions we produce good bowlers but our batsmen are not of the same caliber as Indian batsmen and Indian bowlers are not as good as Pakistani bowlers???

What do you all think???

2

Good question...... !!!!!
I think answer lies in attitude and role model..
Growing up in India as kid I always noticed that whenever we went for playing cricket somehow batting was most important thing.If someday we went for parctice and somehow someone didnt get to bat he will be an upset man.Whenever we played matches team who bats first will always try to get away without bowling if they could by making some excuses like bad light,bad weather or some umpiring controversy.

Also another factor could be influence of Gavaskar and Imran Khan.I guess crickert definitly grew big in Asia druing 70s and 80s and kid at that time have role models like Gavaskar and Imran.Indian kids idolized gavaskar and tried to be like him and sameway pakistani kids have great role model in shape of Imran.

3

Every team has its own unique talent, pak has bowling, ind have batting, South Africa has the ability to produce 1st class all rounders. And blaming the conditions for the lack of talent in the country is rubbish.

Personally I think Pakistan hasn't produced a very good batsman since Youhana, someone who can be labeled as world class.

India on the other hand has never produced a world class bowler, I mean never.

4

I would say the only Indian bowler who would come close to being world class was Bhagwat Chandreskar, I just can't remember India ever having someone even close to Imran, or even Shoaib as a matter of a fact.

5

Umair the question is not one of comparison but the reasons as to why Pakistan has produced better bowlers and India better batsmen. So stick to the thread rather than getting into comparisons.

6

I wouldn't say Pakistan has produce way less better batsman than India, India has marginally better batsman while Pakistan is way ahead in the bowling department.

But someone said above, just because some of today's pakistani fast bowlers had Imran Khan to idolized, so they became fast bowlers but who did Imran idiolized when he was young, and I can't remember a decent fast bowler before him. And I don't think it has anything to do with the local conditions, because great batsman are from all over the world and same goes for the bowlers.

7

It just amuses me when people talk of Imran khan and Shoaib Akhtar in same breath. One is a Legend and the other is some cheaptrick pedestrian bowler who thinks that throwing at 100 miles per hour is the only way to bowl.

India never produced fast bowlers because of our role models - Early on we had world class spinners like Subhash Gupte, Bishen singh Bedi, Prasanna, Chandrasekhar and Venkat Raghwan and these people inspired players to take up spin bowling and thats why there have been so many spinners in India. L Sivaramkrishnan, Maninder Singh in the 80s Anil Kumble and Raju in the 90s and now Harbhajan singh, Murali Karthik doing excellent job for India.
In 70s Gavaskar, amarnath and G Vishwanath were so successful and inspired Indians so much that more and more people started taking up batting and that resulted in batsmen like Vengsarkar, Patil, Azhar, Sachin etc.

Somewhere in between Kapil Emerged who was quite fast in the beginning (According to Sunil Gavaskar) but had to curb his speed for the lack of a decent bowling partner. Kapil did influence many in India and the result was Srinath, Prasad, Razdan, Ankola, Raju Kulkarni etc emerging at top level. I would still rate Srinath at no. 5 in the world (after Akram, Donald, Waqar, Mcgrath ).

8

no one ever compared Imran and Shoaib, I said any Indian bowler can not come close to Imran or even Shoaib.

Anyways, like I mentioned numerous times, the role model theory is rubbish.
Look at the great West Indian bowlers of 2 decades before, if they were the role models of the young bowlers at that time, how come West Indies doesn't have a world class fast bowler equvalent to Walsh, Marshall, Garner rightnow.

Srinath was decent but I don't think he is in anyones top 25 fast bowlers list.

9

Umair316 - That's your opinion, I think Kapil and Srinath both are better bowlers than Shoaib. They may bot be faster than him but definately better than him.

About Srinath not being among the current top 25 bowlers well - Please name current top 25 fast bowlers and I would like to see Where you place him. If you meant over all then I agree he may not be in the top 25 fast bowlers ever.

The role model theory may be rubbish in your eyes but its a reality in the subcontinet that people look up to Wasim Akram and Sachin Tendulkar as their cricketing heros and these players have inspired 100s of present generation players. As for West Indies, the influence of Hip-hop music, NBA and NFL is killing all the major sports there.

10

Kapil dev i can understand, but srinath :rolleyes: There is only one categoy where srinath fits, and everyone at kk knows that! heh

Anywayz, if our street or padestrians bowlers can help us win series in Australia and India, imagine what our real bowlers will do to you :wink:

11

In general India has not had as great attacking pace men as they've had batsmen or spinners. Prasana, Chandrashekar were best of their class in their times and won matches single handedly. It should also not be forgotten that even though Bedi was not an attacker, he saved many matches by bowling line& lenght that simply bored the batsmen into defense.

When it comes to pacemen, I don't know if you can call Kapil a true pace bowler - fast medium may be.

As to Shoab, while he may have speed I don't think he is world class - not yet; Definitely potential is there ...we'll see as the boy becomes a man!

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *

The role model theory may be rubbish in your eyes but its a reality in the subcontinet that people look up to Wasim Akram and Sachin Tendulkar as their cricketing heros and these players have inspired 100s of present generation players. As for West Indies, the influence of Hip-hop music, NBA and NFL is killing all the major sports there.
[/QUOTE]

If you are blaming the quality of fast bowlers because of their western neighbor then why do they continue to produce quality batsman, the likes of Sarwan, Ganga, Gayle, Samuels, Hinds etc.
Idolizing a certain player is one thing, but having a natural talent is another thing. You can't just idolize Wasim or Tendulkar and become a good fast bowler or a good batsman.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *

If you are blaming the quality of fast bowlers because of their western neighbor then why do they continue to produce quality batsman, the likes of Sarwan, Ganga, Gayle, Samuels, Hinds etc.
Idolizing a certain player is one thing, but having a natural talent is another thing. You can't just idolize Wasim or Tendulkar and become a good fast bowler or a good batsman.
[/QUOTE]

There is something called motivation factor.
it just that personality and class of these great players makes you dream that you can also be liek them and you try to do it.

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Allah_ka_banda2: *

There is something called motivation factor.
it just that personality and class of these great players makes you dream that you can also be liek them and you try to do it.
[/QUOTE]

if thats so the man I have been motivated for the past 15 years, let me go sign up, I will become a great cricketer.

15

All tu-tu-mein-mein aside, I think the reasons for the respective strengths is a combination of many factors that inter-relate.

Wanting to emulate heroes, physical strength and mental state: Lets look at the bare facts, most Pakistanis are more aggressive and physically stronger than their Indian counterparts. It's no wonder all the energy and testerone oozing out of the youth at that age results in them wanting to blast away opponents with toe-crushing yorkers etc; just like the Shoaib's and the Waqar's. It just appeals to them more that way, and it helps a great deal when you've got superstars fighting it out for the nation on the international arena. I think it's the same agressiveness that results in both determined fast bowlers but batsman who have rushes-of-blood and aren't patient enough when it comes to the majority of Pakistan's players.

Indians may not match up in physical strength (Rashid Latif once famously joked: "Iss ki waja ye hai ke woh daal khatey hain, aur hum gosht"), but they've produced some world-class spinners over the years. A successful sportsman will use the tools he's got to the maximum, which is exactly the case here. Fast bowlers in the blue uniform haven't really succeeded internationally in the long-term, but they've worked on what they can do - the batting department. I think India's batting has been at a steadily high standard over the years. It doesn't hurt when you consider that almost anyone can play fast bowling, but to adapt to good spinners takes a real batsman. Again, it's their willingness to patiently construct innings rather than blast away that's proven helpful. Likewise, they've got the Tendulkars and the Dravids to look upto.

and probably more importantly,

The type of pitches used and Street cricket: The lack of organized structure at the juinior level has a silver lining, in that it has regulalry been churning out a generation of gung-ho cavalier cricketers, who have to improvise, improvise and improvise to survive and excel in this region.

From there, the attitude continues when they play on the local pitches, slow and turning in both countries. The fast bowlers have to work extra hard to extract bounce etc., (and the physcially stronger ones are more likely to do it), and the batsman have to really up their game into high gear to play the spinners especially (the ones patient and enterprising enough).

Once they're thrown into the international limelight (at ages considered ridiculous in other parts of the world), their natural insitinct and drive to adapt as quickly as possible leads to future success. Fast bowlers find the wickets in Perth etc. a haven to bowl on, while the batsman who had to counter balls turning a feet or two suddenly find a much friendlier pitch to play on, and it's easier to cream the opposition's bowling.

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *

if thats so the man I have been motivated for the past 15 years, let me go sign up, I will become a great cricketer.
[/QUOTE]

Yes...if million will emaluate someone then obviously one of them will be like his idol.
you might be among other 99999.

So stop stupidity get the point.It effects whome you admire. if as a kid you admired Imran or Wasim akram chances are when you play cricket you would like to a fast bowler.isnt this true in ur case??

17

I admire Tendulkar but I am a horrible batsman.
Its not stupidity friend, its common sense.

Anways, good analysis Diablo.
But I have to disagree on what you said about "*** It doesn't hurt when you consider that almost anyone can play fast bowling, but to adapt to good spinners takes a real batsman.***

I think its just as difficult to play a fast bowler then to play good spinner. I think playing both types requires unique talent, for example, I don't think many would disagree but Zaheer Abbas was a great batsman, but someone pointed out before that he couldn't play fast bowlers on lively tracks and same was said about Donald Bradman, his main weakness was against the spinners.

I also disagree when you say that most Pakistanis are physically stronger then most Indians, India has a muslim population of over 200,000, and I am assured that most of them consume meat on regular basis but there has not been a "real" fast bowler to be discovered, guys like Zaheer Khan are decent medium pacers but they are not in the leagues of Lee, Akhtar, Bond, Sami.
I think it all boils down to personal natural talent rather than emulating an idol or the region which they are from.
Pathans are said to be strongest of the Pakistani people but they have yet to produce a express pace bowler.

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *
I admire Tendulkar but I am a horrible batsman.
Its not stupidity friend, its common sense.

[/QUOTE]

if you admire tendulkar and try to emulate him on cricket ground there is small chance are that you end up being sehwag but there is no chance that you will end up being Akram.

Got the point!!!!
Agar nahi to mitti dalo.

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Allah_ka_banda2: *

if you admire tendulkar and try to emulate him on cricket ground there is small chance are that you end up being sehwag but there is no chance that you will end up being Akram.

Got the point!!!!
Agar nahi to mitti dalo.
[/QUOTE]

Sehwag is a good batsman not because he idolized Tendulkar but he is naturally talented, yes true that he has based most of his techniques on Tendulkar, but it takes a naturally talented cricketer to duplicate Tendulkar's style.

20

:smack:
ama that was a metaphor.!!!
go to the point.