Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

I dont know why Pakistan becomes paranoid about Afghanistan and its relationship with India. As all steps Pakistan takes to counter that creates more problems for us.

Forget Nato v the Taliban. The real Afghan fight is India v Pakistan | William Dalrymple | Comment is free | The Guardian

Pakistan-watchers are, however, unanimous that while Kayani is mindful of the Taliban threat in his own country, his burning obsession is still India’s presence in Afghanistan. **As I was told by a senior British diplomat in Islamabad: “At the moment, Afghanistan is all [Kayani] thinks about and all he wants to talk about. It’s all he gets briefed about and it’s his primary focus of attention. There is an Indo-Pak proxy war, and it’s going on right now.”
**
Much will depend on what India decides. It is unclear if its government will choose to play an enhanced role in Afghanistan after the departure of American troops. Some Indian hawks argue that by taking on a more robust military role in Afghanistan, India could fill the security vacuum left by the US withdrawal, advance its regional interests, compete with its Chinese rival for influence in the country, and thwart its Pakistani enemy at the same time.

The efforts of Nawaz Sharif, Pakistan’s prime minister, to reach out to India may strengthen the hand of the moderates in Delhi. What is certain though is that the future will be brighter for all three countries caught in a deadly triangle of mutual mistrust and competition if Pakistan and India can come to see the instability of Afghanistan as a common challenge to be jointly managed rather than a battlefield on which to escalate their long, bitter feud.

A Deadly Triangle: Afghanistan, Pakistan and India | Brookings Institution

According to Indian diplomatic sources, there are actually fewer than 3,600 Indians in Afghanistan, almost all of them businessmen and contract workers in the agriculture, telecommunications, manufacturing and mining sectors. There are only 10 Indian diplomatic officers, compared to nearly 140 in the UK embassy and 1,200 in the U.S. embassy.** But the Pakistani military, which effectively controls Pakistan’s foreign policy, remains paranoid about even this small an Indian presence in what they regard as their strategic Afghan backyard—much as the British used to be about Russians in Afghanistan during the days of the Great Game.**

**For the Pakistani military, the existential threat posed by India has taken precedence over all other geopolitical and economic goals. The fear of being squeezed in an Indian nutcracker is so great that it has led the ISI to take steps that put Pakistan’s own internal security at risk, as well as Pakistan’s relationship with its main strategic ally, the U.S. For much of the last decade the ISI has sought to restore the Taliban to power so that it can oust Karzai and his Indian friends.

**To achieve this goal, the Pakistani military has relied on “asymmetric warfare”— using jihadi fighters for its own ends. This strategy goes back over 30 years. Since the early 1980s, the ISI has consciously and consistently funded and incubated a variety of Islamic extremist groups. Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid calculates that there are currently more than 40 such extremist groups operating in Pakistan, most of whom have strong links with the ISI as well as the local Islamic political parties.

Pakistani generals have long viewed the jihadis as a cost-effective and easily-deniable means of controlling events in Afghanistan—something they briefly achieved with the Taliban capture of Kabul in 1996. By the same means, the Pakistanis have kept much of the Indian army bogged down in Kashmir ever since the separatist insurgency broke out in 1990. The generals like using jihadis because they help foster a sense of nationalism based on the twin prongs of hatred for India and the bonding power of Islamic identity.

It is unclear how many Pakistanis still endorse this strategy and how many are having second thoughts. There are clearly those in the army who are now alarmed at the amount of sectarian and political violence the jihadis have brought to Pakistan. But that view is contested by some in both the army and the ISI who continue to believe that the jihadis are a more practical defense against Indian hegemony than even nuclear weapons.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

When would we realize that it is economic development, not military strength that determines a country's weight in world affairs now?

Even if we consider a scenario where India has influence in Afghan government, a peaceful stable Afghanistan can benefit Pakistan a lot. Our trade with Afghanistan would be much cheaper compared to India. Our contractors can offer a lot of services in rebuilding of the country and our services sector would not have a lot of logistic problems expanding operations into Afghanistan. A peaceful Afghanistan might very well be the boost our ailing economy is looking for.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

^ This obsession with Afghanistan-India relationship has destroyed Pakistan. We have already sacrificed a lot, its high time the policy makers also come to their senses and improve the relationship of Pakistan with its neighbors (especially Afghanistan) for peace in Pakistan.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

That's only if Afghanistan is willing to have any special friendly relations with Pakistan.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

Even if Afghanistan is not willing to have a friendly relationship with Pakistan, its their right as a sovereign country. Just as we don't like afghan/Indian interference in our affairs, the afghans also despise our interference in their internal matters.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

Agree. That's why I think its pointless to even assume that once Ameircans leave, Pakistan Afghanistan will be brothers in arms again. No way. In fact, things could easily get worse. In all honesty, Pakistan should literally think of building an iron wall on its Pak-Afgahn border. Fence it up or whatever.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

It would be bigger loss to them than Pakistan. We do not have to do much.

What Pakistan does is help militant factions in Afghanistan. India did that in Soviet times.

Times have changed now. What India does now is donate wheat/rice to Afghanistan. Help train their human capital. Help with infrastructure building.

We can't really complain if they choose India over Pakistan, given these conditions.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

India does a lot more than just donating wheat and rice to Afghans. But I got your point.

There is a proxy war being fought between India and Pakistan in Kashmir, Afghanistan and within Pakistan itself. It's high time that army officials come out and take the public into confidence. They must inform the public about the real situation, reveal their policies, accept their failures and promise new success. That's the only way forward. Enough of keeping people in dark.

Army has taken the support of people of Pakistan for granted because I doubt that they realise that a nation wide anti military campaign is the last thing they need. I wouldn't be surprised to see if the public does come out on the streets to denounce the guards that were supposed to be their protectors.

When was the last time an army official addressed the public about the security situation?

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

Instead of focusing on futile regional proxy wars which have given nothing but destruction to Pakistan, we should focus more on economy. Once we start improving economically it would be in the interest of regional countries to have good relationship with us. If the neighboring countries want good relationship with India (at the expense of Pakistan) there is a reason.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

Pakistan needs to realize that its neither USA nor RUSSIA, we can't indulge into proxy wars. We became proxy for US in 1980s, now again a semi-proxy for war in Afghanistan. We are "neighbor" of Afghanistan and this is how we should act, as 'neighbors'. US and Saudi Arabia can use us as proxy because their countries are not directly affected by bombings, devastation of the wars. Pakistan needs to move away from any AID whether its for aiding in war or for any 'religious' purposes.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

You can't force people to be their friends. As Ali pointed out our meddling in Aghanistan has destoryed Pakistan & Afghanistan.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

Afghans, when it comes to Pakistan, have been morons from the very birth of the nation.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

^^^ Their obsession with Pakistan is similar to our obsession with Kashmir. Its all about real estate. Funny thing is that KPK actually joined Pakistan in a referendum, but the question of greater Pashtoonistan has always been there.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

Pakistan's obsession with kashmir at least has a UN resolution to show for it, which India itself asked for in 1948. No one in the world, let alone Pakistan, entertain afghanistan's claims. The British sent the afghans back to Pakistan telling them that Pakistan inherited the borders from them in 1947 and unlike what that amanullah khan thought he signed, many say that there is no expiration date on the durand line agreement like the radcliff line. Afghanistan can sit on the adults table when it takes back all its refugees, which never is going to happen with millions already fleeing inside Pakistan and the deadline getting extended for those who do claim the "refugee status".

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

THIS!

Pakistan needs to grow out of this India & afghanistan obsession. Our army has done us proud many times but some segments of army have also taken it as a license to own pakistan and wage or even respond to proxy wars all across the region.

Army needs to be accountable to civilian rule. But Pakistan's politicians are not mature yet. Neither Army is willing to fully relinquish the control of the most important aspects of our country (foreign policy etc)

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

i noticed a huge maturity in all the comments above.
hopefully, the new civilian goverment will slowly but surely, wrest the powers that the PA has bestowed on itself.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

Pashtunistan issue is one thing, but FATA until recently was called Illaqa e ghair by Pakistanis. What does that mean?

If the Afghans don't respect the Durrand line, same is the case with us when we consider the people of FATA as ghair and use different sets of rules to govern them as compared to the rest of the country.

Re: Pakistan - India proxy wars in Afghanistan

FCR should have been replaced a long time ago but there are political uses for it. Heck, I was surprised that it is still here because Geelani made a huge issue like pee pee pee govt had or was going to end FCR.